Definition of "Concealed CaRRY"

[tl_3237]

Here's some additional fodder for divining the definition of "concealed" that I posted in 2014:

I'm unaware of any statutory or case law that provides a clear definition in Pa. FWIW when a court seeks a definition that is not provided by state or case laws they can, and do, reach out to statutes in other states to formulate definitions for use in the case at hand.

From the actual, active statute contained in the North Dakota Century Code 62.1-04-01.:

Definition of concealed.
A firearm or dangerous weapon is concealed if it is carried in such a manner as to not be
discernible by the ordinary observation of a passerby. There is no requirement that there be
absolute invisibility of the firearm or dangerous weapon, merely that it not be ordinarily
discernible. A firearm or dangerous weapon is considered concealed if it is not secured, and is
worn under clothing or carried in a bundle that is held or carried by the individual, or transported
in a vehicle under the individual's control or direction and available to the individual, including
beneath the seat or in a glove compartment. A firearm or dangerous weapon is not considered
concealed if it is:
1. Carried in a belt holster which is wholly or substantially visible or carried in a case
designed for carrying a firearm or dangerous weapon and which is wholly or
substantially visible;
2. Locked in a closed trunk or luggage compartment of a motor vehicle;
3. Carried in the field while lawfully engaged in hunting, trapping, or target shooting,
whether visible or not; or
4. Carried by any person permitted by law to possess a handgun unloaded and in a
secure wrapper from the place of purchase to that person's home or place of business,
or to a place of repair, or back from those locations.
5. A bow and arrow, an unloaded rifle or shotgun, or an unloaded weapon that will expel,
or is readily capable of expelling, a projectile by the action of a spring, compressed air,
or compressed gas including any such weapon commonly referred to as a BB gun, air
rifle, or CO2 gun, while carried in a motor vehicle.

From Black's Law Dictionary (4th Edition):

CONCEAL. To hide; secrete; withhold from the
knowledge of others; to withdraw from observation;
to withhold from utterance or declaration;
to cover or keep from sight. Hopper v. Hopkins,
162 Md. 448, 160 A. 166, 167.
The synonyms of conceal are "to hide; disguise, dissemble;
secrete." To hide is generic; "conceal" is simply
not to make known what we wish to secrete; disguise or
dissemble is to conceal by assuming some false appearance;
to secrete is to hide in some place of secrecy. A man may
conceal facts, disguise his sentiments, dissemble his feelings,
or secrete stolen goods. Darneal v. State, 14 Oki.Cr.
540, 174 P. 290, 292, 1 A.L.R. 638.
The word "conceal," according to the best lexicographers,
signifies to withhold or keep secret mental facts from
another's knowledge, as well as to hide or secrete physical
objects from sight or observation. Gerry v. Dunham, 57
Me. 339.

[Sgt.K]

Please correct if I am, my understanding of Open Carry is while on foot and the entire handgun, including the retention (holster), is in plain view.. other than that it is considered concealed, or not in plain sight.
ie.. OWB holster and while moving you shirt becomes untucked and covered the grips.. concealed, no longer in plain sight

If the popo can see it as worn (I am not discussing wind-blown shirts, etc.) it is not concealed.

I carry my gov't 1911 in a hand made (my hands, thankyouverymuch) crossbreed clone IWB between 3:00 and 3:30. Even with it set deep enough to juuuuust allow my middle finger between the frontstrap and my belt, there is as much gun visible as not.

I can tell you 100% that SEPTA police consider what I do open carry: http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.php?t=216917

My 2¢
YMMV
etc...

[knight0334]

Take special note, a person has been convicted in PA of carrying concealed even when he was carrying openly because he purposely and intentionally turned his body away, thus obstructing view of the handgun. That case focused on the intent to hide the firearm.

[LTCcarrier]

Coming from PA and living in FL it is not as free here in FL. Every time open carry comes up you should see the newspapers. People are frantic. LEO agencies tell what horror will come from it. They portray it as the wild west. Yet most states have open carry. It is so stupid.

[normanvin]

Coming from PA and living in FL it is not as free here in FL. Every time open carry comes up you should see the newspapers. People are frantic. LEO agencies tell what horror will come from it. They portray it as the wild west. Yet most states have open carry. It is so stupid.

It has been known for a long time that Pa was an open carry state. But rarely did you see someone open carry. The a few years ago a group of people began to bring back the practice. You would hear cries of "think of the children" or from gun owners " your gonna ruin it for the rest of us" Yes there were people stopped and yes there were stories in the paper.

The point is it is either legal or not.

[pacodelahoya]

It has been known for a long time that Pa was an open carry state. But rarely did you see someone open carry. The a few years ago a group of showoffs began to bring back the practice. You would hear cries of "think of the children" or from gun owners " your gonna ruin it for the rest of us" Yes there were people stopped and yes there were stories in the paper.

The point is it is either legal or not.

FIFY.

[normanvin]

FIFY.

Or people not afraid to stand up for themselves


Sixty

[Siplace]

Hi Folks.

I am a recent trans-plant from Florida. I was Uncle Sams "Go-Fer" in the late 50's, & I was a member of NYPD back in the 60's & 70's.

I just received my Pa. LTCF permit, but must admit to Much Confusion regarding what constitutes

"Concealed" under the Pa. Penal Law.

Any info will be appreciated.

Bobo

As has been noted there is no specific definition of Concealed in the PA. Also as has been noted open carry is lawful. The only place I have ever seen any sort of definition of either is when it comes to a fire arm in an car or a truck. A fire arm in a car is considered to be concealed. Even if it is sitting on the dash board in plain sight it is considered concealed. You can transport your fire arm in your vehicle with out a permit but it must be unloaded and the ammo has to be stored in a separate locked container. With a permit you can transport the fire arm loaded. Within the state of course.

[R L Suehr]

As has been noted there is no specific definition of Concealed in the PA. Also as has been noted open carry is lawful. The only place I have ever seen any sort of definition of either is when it comes to a fire arm in an car or a truck. A fire arm in a car is considered to be concealed. Even if it is sitting on the dash board in plain sight it is considered concealed. You can transport your fire arm in your vehicle with out a permit but it must be unloaded and the ammo has to be stored in a separate locked container. With a permit you can transport the fire arm loaded. Within the state of course.

Actually the law says concealed "or" in a vehicle require a LTCF. The gun isn't considered "concealed" because it's in a vehicle. They're two separate parts of the same statute.

§ 6106. Firearms not to be carried without a license.
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

[Mitch10mm]

Transport to target shooting or ffl unloaded without a ltcf. Can’t just drive around. Someone expand on this I don’t feel like typing