State troopers disarmed me during a traffic stop, awkward but ended positive.

[photoshooter]

The reason that the majority of these posts are abrasive are due to the OP's responses. He already decided that this was a positive encounter and there is no swaying his opinion.

The abuse started long before the OP responded. The first few posts were very civil but it spiraled downward quickly.

Any "hostile overtone" arose as a result of the OP:

1. Trying to justify his MISTAKES.
2. Downplaying the importance of 4th and 5th Amendment rights.

Justifying police overreaching and acquiescence to it is hardly likely to win you applause here.

When I look at the OP I definitely don't see a guy shitting on the Constitution. I see a guy who is most likely more than a little green when it comes to these encounters, was caught completely off guard and just went with it. I don't know the OP personally so I'm basing all of this on assumptions as are all of you. When all was said and done he wiped his brow and said "whew, that went ok".

I don't see an OP who tried to downplay the 4th and 5th. I see an OP who made a mistake, likely knows he made a mistake now, was insulted and humiliated and is trying to justify his actions. It's human nature. Important distinction for me; trying to provide some justification/thought process to get away from the stream of blows hitting him from all sides. Not justifying his actions because the Constitution doesn't matter to him. And yes I read what he wrote. Again, the words of a guy getting pummeled. Kind of reminds me of;
if you're up to your neck in shit and there are guys all around you shoveling shit at you do you duck?



So my questions (to no one in particular):

-Did he proceed as he did because he just didn't know better or because he truly doesn't give a shit about his rights?

-Can he be educated to respond differently or is he a "lost cause"?
I don't believe for a moment that there's no swaying his opinion.


I'm willing to wager that he's already learned a few things and will respond differently next time.
I'm willing to wager that he's going to be more aware of what's actually happening next time and be a more active participant instead of a spectator.

I feel that everyone, especially the OP would benefit more if the education process remained civil. Reasons cited above for hostility amount to "we don't like what he's saying so instead of reasoning with him we're gonna take him out back and lay him a beating".

I know someone will chime in with "we tried to reason with him..."
Nah. 150-something posts. The first few people reasoned with him but it got ugly quick. If the OP had a chance to respond after say post 4 or 5 I'll bet his response would have been a little different.

My perspective:

I don't feel any need to debate or reason with antis. It generally amounts to a waste of oxygen and I need my oxygen.
This guy is already a gun owner. I feel that it's my/our best interest to educate one another. He's already on our side, no reason to push him away. I never feel like I'm wasting my time debating or reasoning with other gun owners.





So, what am I willing to do besides run my mouth?

I'm willing to refuse unlawful requests.
I'm willing to participate in letter writing efforts as described by GoldCupAbuser.




A question for the forum:

Has anyone ever found out why police run the serial number on a gun?
What I'm asking is what is their legal basis for doing this?

I'm asking because as far as I can tell they have no legal basis and this practice is highly illegal. If we separate the battle into smaller tasks we may be able to move faster. This particular practice seems like a good target. So who do we address the question to in state government?

[PennsyPlinker]

I really wonder if everyone that strongly supports not giving LE a inch, standing up to every right and all the other 2A soldier stuff are really like that in the real world. Or for that matter every had to put that mindset to the test.

I have. I don't tell anyone to do something I won't do, and in cases like this, something I haven't already done. If you are interested, read some of my OC encounters in the OC forum. It is easy enough to search on my screen name for threads started. One can refuse to comply with the police and still be polite. That understanding seems to be missing in a lot of posts as well, usually from people who think that sticking up for one's legal rights constitutes antisocial behavior. It doesn't. That doesn't mean some people won't be that way, but one can politely refuse to comply and still retain his freedom, dignity, etc.

[Gun]

When I look at the OP I definitely don't see a guy shitting on the Constitution. I see a guy who is most likely more than a little green when it comes to these encounters, was caught completely off guard and just went with it.

... or maybe he didn't want to risk a possible DUI.

It's hard to know how to react to these situations until you've been mugged way too many times.

[Yentl Marmelstein]

All in all, awesome encounter.

You're kidding, right?

[tacticalreload]

Any "hostile overtone" arose as a result of the OP:

1. Trying to justify his MISTAKES.
2. Downplaying the importance of 4th and 5th Amendment rights.

Justifying police overreaching and acquiescence to it is hardly likely to win you applause here.

After many, many, many threads coming from all different sides, I honestly can't think of a single thing that will unilaterally draw applause here. Almost all of these threads get started by people who are posting experiences for the first time. The reason for that? Because after posting up the first, few are willing to post up a second. I'm pretty sure the OP, in this case, is long gone from this thread.

I'm convinced that if someone managed to jump aboard an out of control bus filled with nuns and school children and saved them from careening off a cliff and was hailed a hero, more than a few people here would totally rip him apart for not lawyering up before talking to the police about the incident once they showed up on the scene of even getting involved in the first place. It should probably go into a FAQ sticky that, unless you're ready to be bitch slapped, don't post about your experiences.

Not saying that the OP did or didn't deserve anything in this thread... just saying that people are constantly under-estimating the anal thrashing they are going to get from people who don't see eye-to-eye with their personal and political values, beliefs, and ideologies. The #2 rule right after "never talk to the police" should be "never talk to the forum".

[Storm88000]

It's overall a strange story, because it appears to me, thru personal evidence and general information, that the PA state police consists of and requires a higher standard for their employees, much moreso than a local PD. If OP had posted that it was his local township PD that did this it wouldn't have caused such a stir, I think.

[Emptymag]

After many, many, many threads coming from all different sides, I honestly can't think of a single thing that will unilaterally draw applause here. Almost all of these threads get started by people who are posting experiences for the first time. The reason for that? Because after posting up the first, few are willing to post up a second. I'm pretty sure the OP, in this case, is long gone from this thread.

I'm convinced that if someone managed to jump aboard an out of control bus filled with nuns and school children and saved them from careening off a cliff and was hailed a hero, more than a few people here would totally rip him apart for not lawyering up before talking to the police about the incident once they showed up on the scene of even getting involved in the first place. It should probably go into a FAQ sticky that, unless you're ready to be bitch slapped, don't post about your experiences.

Not saying that the OP did or didn't deserve anything in this thread... just saying that people are constantly under-estimating the anal thrashing they are going to get from people who don't see eye-to-eye with their personal and political values, beliefs, and ideologies. The #2 rule right after "never talk to the police" should be "never talk to the forum".

This is too funny.

WAAAAAAYYY back at the beginning when someone wondered why anyone would ever post about a personal experience on here, I started to type...

My post had the words "nuns", "school bus", and "kittens"...

I deleted it and went elsewhere because sometimes it's just not worth the bother.

[ehidle]

Civil rights lawsuit. Now.

[Storm88000]

Wow - nearing 5,000 views already - I wonder if members from other forums are linking to this

[Curmudgeon]

Wow - nearing 5,000 views already - I wonder if members from other forums are linking to this

Count on it. Just check the bottom of the main forum page for "Currently Active Users"

221 members, 761 guests. This is typical.
.