Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    BTW, Tootie had a better word for this type woman, begins with a C and ends with a T
    I used to call my ex girlfriend a Cabinet too.


    In all seriousness he should just tell the judge he has no intention to do anything unlawlful. He has too much to lose, his ability to have visitation with his child and his rights to owning firearms, which are both a big part of his life.

    PFA's are rather rediculous. It seems as though any girl who can fake a tear will get herself a PFA against any shmuck who she spent the night with. We've gone over this a thousand times in many classes. Many of my professors are also attorneys and they've seen this abuse far too many times.
    Last edited by jcabin; March 16th, 2009 at 12:19 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by headcase View Post
    let them eventually bring the FBI to kill my wife and son over fucking chickens....

  2. #12
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    May 2008
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by fingers80002 View Post
    Now that is evil, when Tootie uses that word.......
    That's the nicest thing I could think of to call her. This guy is an absolute sweetheart and doesn't deserve this crap. I hope to all hope that what she truly is comes out and she looses custody of this sweet little girl. This thing is a raving lunatic and this little girl doesn't deserve the horrible life that she will live if she stays with her.

    This is the kind of crap that gives us good ones a bad name and than we have to defend ourselves to the poor guys that had to deal with a C like this one.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Filling a PFA is a common technique in custody and support cases. First, he wants a DNA test. Based on the results, he wants to file for full custody based on her diminished mental capacity. Next, absolutly fight that PFA. From what you have written, there a good chance that even a poor attorney can get her to break down on the stand and twist herself into looking like a liar. He has about a 20% chance of winnning the thing. He needs to look clean, neat, and non threating in court. His lawyer should be able to tell him what he needs to do.

    Last, he needs to find better women. The kind that are not wet on the brain, crazy, or have a history of filing PFAs. If you meet a chick and she is willing to get in bed with you after knowing your for 15 minutes. Just think of all the other crazy shit she will do without thinking. It's kind of this simple.

    All the best to your friend. The system is really stacked against men when it comes to PFAs

  4. #14
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    May 2008
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    Great Falls, Virginia
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    Any and ALL advice would be appreciated ASAP so I can tell him. If GunLawyer is in the house tonight I would love to hear his take on this!
    You said that he has a lawyer already. I think it's vital that he inform the lawyer that maintaining his gun rights is very important. He should call the lawyer immediately to discuss this aspect of the case.

  5. #15
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    Oct 2007
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    East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    This PFA bullshit is one of the worst things to ever be allowed in this country. Absolutely worthless pieces of paper with no purpose other than to violate a person's rights. I hope this works out for your friend, Dave.

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
    than to those attending too small a degree of it."~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
    Hobson fundraiser Remember SFN Read before you Open Carry

  6. #16
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    Feb 2008
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    Reading, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by dc dalton View Post
    Well I have posted several times about friend and his problems with his (now) ex-girlfriend over the past few weeks but today when I got back from VF I got a note to call him, that the SHTF.

    First some quick background:

    1. they are not married but had (see below) a little boy together

    2. There has NEVER been any domestic abuse or charges filed

    3. About a month ago she went nuts, left him and started all sorts of shit.

    4. He thought everything was settled and they were getting ready to sign a visitation and support document with a lawyer.

    When I called him tonight he sounded BAD, asked him what was up and he damn near cried. First off she filed a PFA but that's just the beginning.

    The PFA states he is NOT the father of the child, that in fact she had been screwing a guy at work for quite some time and he was the father. She stated the reason for the PFA was the fact that he has a temper and has broken things and she thought that when he found out he was not this childs father he would go nuts and 'come after her'

    He has a hearing tomorrow and his lawyer has said they are going to talk her into dropping it because of some other information they have, information that will destroy her old job (and the father's current job) and a lawsuit she has against this employer but if that doesn't work he is to plead no contest.

    Now let's say he pleads no contest, what happens to his gun rights and LTCF? Are there any options here?

    Needless to say this is one ugly situation, besides the pain he and his family are feeling he really needs to know what is about to happen to his gun rights.

    Any and ALL advice would be appreciated ASAP so I can tell him. If GunLawyer is in the house tonight I would love to hear his take on this!
    To start, I would not in any way plead no contest. Its not an admission of guilt, but its effectively as good as since it still results in a PFA against thim. If he does it, from there on out that PFA will be on his record and anyone checking his BG will only see he had a PFA against him.

    If he has proof of the shit she was trying to start previously, he should use it. Whether its any kind of documentation or witness testimony it'll weaken her case. Also having people who know him well there to testify that he does not "have a temper" and would never "go after" anyone will go a long way towards shooting down her BS claims.

    Any proof of the visitation and support agreement that was about to be signed is more ammo for him. If its not his kid, she wouldn't have been trying to get support out of him unless she was trying to use the system to screw him. She'll have to sit on the stand and either admit its his kid, or admit that she was just trying to screw him over and that will pretty much tell the judge everything he needs to know about her either way.
    Please help my Baby Kitties and I avoid being homeless.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    See...in my mind real protection from abuse comes in the form of jacketed hollow points. A piece of paper isn't going to do shit to a smart, determined attacker.

  8. #18
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    Reading, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by headcase View Post
    This PFA bullshit is one of the worst things to ever be allowed in this country. Absolutely worthless pieces of paper with no purpose other than to violate a person's rights. I hope this works out for your friend, Dave.
    Im responding to you just because you're the post right above my last post but this is in regards to all the statements about PFAs.

    PFA's are an imperfect solution to a real problem that doesn't have a perfect solution. Any system designed to help those in need will always be able to be abused by those who just want to hurt someone. PFA's, like anything (such as guns), have the potential to be used for good or bad, it all depends on the intentions of the person filing it. We're among the first to tell people not to blame the gun for the actions of the person using it, so we should not be blaming the PFA laws for the actions of the people using them.

    A perfect example is a situation a friend of mine encountered.

    After moving back to PA (carbon county), she decided to move back to Reading to be closer to her son from her previous (and only) marriage. She was with a guy that was, to put it nicely, a few fries short of a happy meal. When they moved back here, she transferred from the convenience store she'd gotten a job at there to one here, he didn't have a job at that time due to layoff. They stayed with me temporarily till he could get a job, which never happened.

    While staying with me she let me know she needed to get away from him because of his issues which was why she called me when she decided to move back here, she knew I'd be willing to help. While they stayed with me I personally witnessed him punching out the window of her car with her and their son in it because she wouldn't stand in the street and have a screaming match with him. A short time after that I got a call at work from her.

    She was in tears, the police were on the way to my place. He'd decided to kill himself by using a toaster in the bathtub, she stopped him. He then attacked her and their son (5 months old) with a hammer and a knife. "Mother Bear Syndrome" kicked in and he only managed to cut her hands up as she tried to get them away from him. He bolted from the apartment after that. When I got home the police were outside, he was sitting on the front steps of the building, and he was claiming to not be able to remember anything that had happened at all the entire day, not even where he was when he woke up that morning.

    The police ended up taking him over to the hospital, the hospital took Xrays, CT scan, etc to determine if there was anything physical to cause the "blackout," and when they found nothing they called the on call shrink. At that point the police left because it was now a "mental health" issue. By that time he was also "calmed down and coherrent" so being as they were not married she couldn't have him 302'd, the shrink felt that there was no need for her to involuntarily commit him and left the decision on whether or not to stay up to him. Of course he didn't stay, and several weeks later admitted to someone that he never blacked out, he'd only said that because he knew the police would take him to the hospital and as long as he was "OK" by the time they called the shrink he'd be able to go home with no charges pressed.

    He knew how to work the system to be able to get away with, at the least, assault with a deadly weapon. She filed a PFA against him, in the courtroom everyone could see it was justified including the sheriffs deputies in the courtroom. While she was on the stand being questioned by him (he decided to represent himself) the way he was pacing, the looks he was giving her, the clenching and unclenching of his fists, etc caused both the deputies to stand up from where they were sitting at the side of the courtroom, one of them standing next to the entrance to the witness stand and the other standing in front of it. While I was testifying to what I'd witnessed (being questioned by her lawyer) He had to be told to sit down multiple times, one of them with both deputies stepping in front of the table he was at because he'd started to come around it.

    She got the PFA, which he repeatedly violated and was arrested for each time. Everytime he was in the courtoom again for the violations he made it clear he didn't care about the PFA and on one occasion even told the judge "Its just a piece of paper. It doesnt mean anything and I don't have to obey it." But he never attacked her again, never threatened her again, didn't do anything other than violate the no contact and distance provisions.

    She also bought OC spray and a 180+dB personal alarm when she filed it so she'd be able to defend herself with them and get the attention of anyone within a few blocks, but the PFA guaranteed he would be arrested if she needed to use them rather than being given a citation for something like harassment. She had a definite need for protection for herself and her son which is what PFAs were intended for.
    Please help my Baby Kitties and I avoid being homeless.

  9. #19
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    Oct 2007
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    East Stroudsburg, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaos View Post
    See...in my mind real protection from abuse comes in the form of jacketed hollow points. A piece of paper isn't going to do shit to a smart, determined attacker.
    Or a moronic, opportunistic attacker either. In fact, much like stupid gun laws, the only people these bullshit pieces of paper do effect, are the ones who wouldn't violate the basic tenent of the order in the first place. They are feel good measures born of disarmed people being victimized by people they are not allowed to defend themselves against. I would love to see one instance of a PFA stopping one attack on anyone.... "Put that bat down! This paper says you are not allowed to beat me to death, so your screwed now! Leave!"...Yeah, OfuckingK...

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty
    than to those attending too small a degree of it."~Thomas Jefferson, 1791
    Hobson fundraiser Remember SFN Read before you Open Carry

  10. #20
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    Feb 2008
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    Reading, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: Well it happened, PFA on my friend and he has questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaos View Post
    See...in my mind real protection from abuse comes in the form of jacketed hollow points. A piece of paper isn't going to do shit to a smart, determined attacker.
    PFA's are a single tool in an arsenal. See my post right after yours, specifically the last paragraph.
    Please help my Baby Kitties and I avoid being homeless.

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