The view from the outside looking in

[Emoticon]

I am fairly new to the whole firearms world, but I wanted to write this to give people some context from an outsider who didn't grow up in a not hugely pro-firearms household. I'm from the suburbs west of Philly my father had a 12 gauge whose main purpose was collecting dust. My family as a whole didn't really believe in hunting for reasons other than food, concealed carry, etc... and was not very active in gun politics. We also lived in a very low crime area, to give you and idea of how low, when the sheriff came out to shoot a rabid fox in our yard he had trouble loading his shotgun. I admit that before I actually took the time to do hours of research myself and immerse myself in both arguments of the pro and anti gun movements I believed that some degree of gun control was a good idea. Before your blood temperature reaches a boil after that last line consider this; my view of gun crime was mainly that of the channel 6 news every night talking about how many people got murdered over drugs in Kensington and not really seeing or knowing anything about the legitimate firearms community. The news taught me that people who owned handguns were drug dealers or crazies and NRA members were just a bunch of gun nuts.

Then I moved to northern Philadelphia.

I noticed how most of the police had been replaced by security cameras that *might* be able identify my murderer rather than actually stop a murder in progress. I noticed how (trying not to sound racist here) as a white person in northern philly there are certain inner city people (not all of them) who view me with contempt and have attempted to harass me living in the city. People who think I must be rich and my minimum wage life is all rainbows and sunshine, make assumptions, and judge me simply because I'm white. Anyway not feeling safe at all and constantly operating under condition orange waiting for someone to rob me or attempt to push me on to the subway tracks I started to think about upgrading my personal defense beyond the knife I usually carry.

So, I started researching gun politics, gun law, guns themselves, getting an LCTF, training, and I just generally got more immersed in the world of firearms. I looked at both sides of the argument deeper. I saw how the Brady Campaign loves to lie with statistics and group drug dealers and gang members in with legitimate legal gun owners. I saw how they also like to lump suicide statistics too into their propaganda as firearm homicides. I saw how they sometimes outright lie, one article I had read talked about how easy it is to buy machine guns, as if you can just walk in and buy one at a gun show. Needless to say I've now become a complete convert and have as a result brought the argument of; "people who wish to commit murder don't care if they got their gun legally" and "banning any form of weapon isn't going to stop humans from finding some other means of killing each other" to all of my friends and family and have also converted some of them as well.

My point comes down to this...

In some ways it seems to me that the pro-gun community spends so much time battling the anti-gun people directly that they ignore the people like me who are on the outside just watching the news and seeing the bad things that go on in the city every day. The fanatical opposition some people have to the anti-gun people also from an outsider's perspective can make them look just plain crazy sometimes. I really think that the best way to win the pro-2nd amendment battle is to educate people who are neither overtly opposed nor against guns like I was. I think that if the pro gun community were actually able to convince people like me instead by taking people shooting for example and opening their eyes to see underhanded techniques and outright lies perpetrated by the anti gun movement that it would really change the sentiment of the public greatly.

This video from the movie "Thank You For Smoking" pretty much sums up my point, except about the part of being "wrong";

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLS-npemQYQ

I really think that instead of fighting the crazed anti-gunners directly we need to go after the people like I used to be who are fairly indifferent to the fight. Once we do that I think that the pro-gun community would make up the vast majority and we could marginalize and make the anti-gun movement completely inconsequential.

[granuale]

I really think that instead of fighting the crazed anti-gunners directly we need to go after the people like I used to be who are fairly indifferent to the fight. Once we do that I think that the pro-gun community would make up the vast majority and we could marginalize and make the anti-gun movement completely inconsequential.

Elected officials care chiefly about remaining elected officials. We keep our gun rights by showing them that there will be a dear price to pay by those who would vote them away. Adding more people to the list who would help exact that price is certainly time well spent, but more people who generally support gun rights won't mean much. The fight is between the committed on both sides, and the minute the elected think their bread will get more butter from the anti's, is the minute we can kiss our rights goodbye.

Also if you look around you'll find that we are winning on most fronts and the tide has turned in a major way from the recent past when we were on the run. We have reacted in the best way possible, by showing our might and making those who would oppose us pay dearly at the ballot box.

[Emptymag]

Thanks for sharing your insight.



If everyone here took ONE person to the range this year, it would do more good than any amount of pounding on a keyboard ever will.


Most people who are "afraid" of "guns", simply don't understand them.


I've watched - and the change from hesitation and uncertainty to awe, intrigue, and absolute joy on the face of a first-time shooter is a sight to behold.

[Connal]

I agree with you on the point that people need to be made aware that someone who owns guns isn't a criminal.

The problem with many people, is that they get this idea drilled into their heads for years. All they hear in the news is "Three killed in driveby shooting." Not "Gun owner does charity work for underprivileged kids".

I was lucky, my family were not anti gun in the very least. We didn't do much hunting. But, my uncles all had rifles. My grandpa had an old pistol in his closet.

For years, (my grandpa had a good amount of land) while growing up, in the summer an uncle, or my father would take us kids out. Load up one of the firearms, and teach us how to shoot. Of course, this was after teaching us about safety.

I guess I lucked out. I learned from a young age, that guns are not a bad thing. No more than people at least.

I actually open carry, in an attempt to show people that I own a gun, but won't rob them. That I am a "gun nut", but have never fired my gun at anything but paper.

One thing I have found, is that most people don't seem to notice or care. I've gotten a few questions. And when I don't have the answers to their questions, I direct them here. In my daily OCing, I have maybe only found a handful of people that don't like it, or speak their voice about it. Ironically, the two most vocal are on my mothers side of the family. My uncle is a lifetime member of the NRA, and his basement is setup for reloading just about anything he shoots. He went to the length of building a gun range on his property just for fun. The second, is my cousin. Who believes even carrying concealed is crazy because this "isn't a bad area". Ironically enough, he is getting his NRA certs for being a range safety officer.

[ImminentDanger]

Here's something to help out with the educational efforts....

http://forum.pafoa.org/861333-post-1.html


...

[andrewjs18]

I am fairly new to the whole firearms world, but I wanted to write this to give people some context from an outsider who didn't grow up in a not hugely pro-firearms household. I'm from the suburbs west of Philly my father had a 12 gauge whose main purpose was collecting dust. My family as a whole didn't really believe in hunting for reasons other than food, concealed carry, etc... and was not very active in gun politics. We also lived in a very low crime area, to give you and idea of how low, when the sheriff came out to shoot a rabid fox in our yard he had trouble loading his shotgun. I admit that before I actually took the time to do hours of research myself and immerse myself in both arguments of the pro and anti gun movements I believed that some degree of gun control was a good idea. Before your blood temperature reaches a boil after that last line consider this; my view of gun crime was mainly that of the channel 6 news every night talking about how many people got murdered over drugs in Kensington and not really seeing or knowing anything about the legitimate firearms community. The news taught me that people who owned handguns were drug dealers or crazies and NRA members were just a bunch of gun nuts.

Then I moved to northern Philadelphia.

I noticed how most of the police had been replaced by security cameras that *might* be able identify my murderer rather than actually stop a murder in progress. I noticed how (trying not to sound racist here) as a white person in northern philly there are certain inner city people (not all of them) who view me with contempt and have attempted to harass me living in the city. People who think I must be rich and my minimum wage life is all rainbows and sunshine, make assumptions, and judge me simply because I'm white. Anyway not feeling safe at all and constantly operating under condition orange waiting for someone to rob me or attempt to push me on to the subway tracks I started to think about upgrading my personal defense beyond the knife I usually carry.

So, I started researching gun politics, gun law, guns themselves, getting an LCTF, training, and I just generally got more immersed in the world of firearms. I looked at both sides of the argument deeper. I saw how the Brady Campaign loves to lie with statistics and group drug dealers and gang members in with legitimate legal gun owners. I saw how they also like to lump suicide statistics too into their propaganda as firearm homicides. I saw how they sometimes outright lie, one article I had read talked about how easy it is to buy machine guns, as if you can just walk in and buy one at a gun show. Needless to say I've now become a complete convert and have as a result brought the argument of; "people who wish to commit murder don't care if they got their gun legally" and "banning any form of weapon isn't going to stop humans from finding some other means of killing each other" to all of my friends and family and have also converted some of them as well.

My point comes down to this...

In some ways it seems to me that the pro-gun community spends so much time battling the anti-gun people directly that they ignore the people like me who are on the outside just watching the news and seeing the bad things that go on in the city every day. The fanatical opposition some people have to the anti-gun people also from an outsider's perspective can make them look just plain crazy sometimes. I really think that the best way to win the pro-2nd amendment battle is to educate people who are neither overtly opposed nor against guns like I was. I think that if the pro gun community were actually able to convince people like me instead by taking people shooting for example and opening their eyes to see underhanded techniques and outright lies perpetrated by the anti gun movement that it would really change the sentiment of the public greatly.

This video from the movie "Thank You For Smoking" pretty much sums up my point, except about the part of being "wrong";

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLS-npemQYQ

I really think that instead of fighting the crazed anti-gunners directly we need to go after the people like I used to be who are fairly indifferent to the fight. Once we do that I think that the pro-gun community would make up the vast majority and we could marginalize and make the anti-gun movement completely inconsequential.

thanks for the write up and given people an outside look.

it proves my assertion that we must educate the people and stop relying on pro-gun legislation to do it.

http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/118...ay-future.html

[Emoticon]

Elected officials care chiefly about remaining elected officials. We keep our gun rights by showing them that there will be a dear price to pay by those who would vote them away. Adding more people to the list who would help exact that price is certainly time well spent, but more people who generally support gun rights won't mean much. The fight is between the committed on both sides, and the minute the elected think their bread will get more butter from the anti's, is the minute we can kiss our rights goodbye.

Also if you look around you'll find that we are winning on most fronts and the tide has turned in a major way from the recent past when we were on the run. We have reacted in the best way possible, by showing our might and making those who would oppose us pay dearly at the ballot box.

I agree that legislators are the only people who can make a difference as far as the law is concerned. However by recruiting people to you cause you can have more people to elect the people you want who can make a difference. Also if more people were educated about guns the news probably either wouldn't be as interested in doing their little anti-gun hit jobs because it wouldn't be as sensational in the headlines.

Remember there was a time in US history when most citizens were educated and owned firearms... The colonial times when the 2nd amendment was written. I would argue that since less households have been armed it has allowed the public to get to the state where people who don't understand them will fight to legislate guns as opposed to protecting them as a right because less people are educated about them.

I also agree that the pro-gun community is winning the fight currently, but I think we could be doing better to bring people whose stance on guns aren't yet set in stone into the fold.

[ByblosHex]

Thanks for sharing your insight.



If everyone here took ONE person to the range this year, it would do more good than any amount of pounding on a keyboard ever will.


Most people who are "afraid" of "guns", simply don't understand them.


I've watched - and the change from hesitation and uncertainty to awe, intrigue, and absolute joy on the face of a first-time shooter is a sight to behold.

THIS!!!

My girlfriend was an anti-gunner who had a great fear of firearms. All based on a complete lack of knowledge. Now she's as much a pro-gunner as I am, all from learning.

If more people knew, more people would be pro-gun.

Ignoriance is the main tool of the anti-gunners.

[Brick]

Well Emoticon your point of view is certainly appreciated. And it would be great if we could concentrate on getting the word and the truth out to the uncommitted or uninformed or even the uninterested. We face only one problem. Through what medium? Newspapers, radio and and television are almost all anti-gun (perhaps I should use the term anti-rights).

Every gun club I've ever belonged to has some sort of open house event to try to inform the public of shooting sports, many have have pre-hunting, open to the public, sight in days. Many try other means like cleaning up trash from local streams as a means to develop interest and to demonstrate "neighborlyness". Rarely if ever do these efforts receive anything more that a passing reference in the local news media. Few newspapers will ever print pro-gun or pro-rights letters to the editor.

But, as a group we keep trying no matter what the opposition. One letter, one person, one conversation at a time. Forums like PAFOA might be preaching to choir in a way but, at least we can share ideas and devlop discussion points among ourselves.

Welcome to the fight. May we never fail.

[MuzzleFlash]

Most people who are "afraid" of "guns", simply don't understand them.

I think it's deeper than that, they don't understand their own mind or body. All the gun fearing people I know are a little clumsy, oblivious, and tend to 'Forrest Gump' their way through life. You can pick up a toy gun, keep your finger on the trigger, and click away without causing serious harm. When it comes time to handle a real gun, the person handling it must now do something they've never had to do before in their life... be completely responsible for their actions!
We've all seen the ND videos of police misfiring and people getting firearms training who keep letting their fingers slip back onto the trigger. This, in my opinion, is the average person. It takes a lot of mental effort and time to stop moving without thinking first, to start living a cognitive life instead of letting your motor functions flow from any wandering thought. It's as if the mindset of childhood is frozen, they act first and only give it a reflecting thought if something goes wrong that gets them in trouble. Combine this with the classic line "If I had a gun I'd probably go on a shooting spree." and what you've got are people terrified of their own thoughts and actions.
In my limited experience the best way I've found to get people interested in guns is to start with getting them into the mindset that they do have control over their motor functions, they do have the ability to get angry without taking action on it, and they already operate a 2 ton weapon much deadlier than a gun every day. They need to realize TV is not reality and everybody with a gun does not point it for dramatic effect when they get emotional.

If you don't trust yourself with a firearm because of what you might do, it's easy to see why you'd believe no one else should have them either.