"Armed Senior Citizen"

[Bruce Eimer]

Note from a friend and Instructor:

"I recently was introduced to a 70ish year old gentleman at a retirement community in Florida who was supposedly a "firearms instructor".
He told me he was a life member of the NRA and had been an NRA Certified Firearms Instructor for years. He had migrated to South Florida from Long Island, NY.

He stated that for 40 years as a businessman in Long Island and NYC, he held a gun permit and that he had carried a gun since he dealt with large amounts of cash in his business.

He told me that he had become an instructor years ago and that he had conducted Basic Pistol and Personal Protection classes for years.
When I asked him what he carried, he told me that, when he did carry, 'these days", he carried a North American Arms .22LR mini-revolver. I asked him if he believed that this was a viable carry gun and he responded that it was all he believed he needed for close quarters. He stated that if he needed a gun it would only be in a close quarters situation and that 'several.22's in the face would surely do the job. No sense in overkill'. This gentlemen also stated that he taught some classes for helping senior citizens in South Florida obtain their carry permits!

Unsurprisingly, he had voted for Obama, stating that 'reasonable, common sense gun laws' were not objectionable to him and that the gun culture had gone to far. He stated that he disagreed with the NRA's 'agressive agenda'. Heaven forbid if I had asked him to comment on GOA, or JPOFO, or the USCCA!

Carrying when you feel like it, is like saying that you have the power to predict when you will be faced with imminent deadly peril. Limiting your 'firepower' to five rounds in a handgun that can only be counted on at 4 feet and in, and that cannot be reloaded in an emergency, is asking good 'ol Murphy to just stay out of your life. It is truly delusional. This gentleman was also smug about his beliefs. He may never be faced with imminent deadly peril, but if he is, he and his wife will have to be extremely lucky to get through the incident.


/Dr. Bruce Eimer
www.PersonalDefenseSolutions.net
www.DefensiveHandguns.com

[General Geoff]

An NAA mini-revolver in hand is better than a 1911 in the safe. If that's what he's comfortable carrying, more power to him.

I won't comment on his political views.

[ByAnyMeans]

An NAA mini-revolver in hand is better than a 1911 in the safe. If that's what he's comfortable carrying, more power to him.

I won't comment on his political views.

I agree, but obviously foolishness knows no age limit.

[dc dalton]

Hey looky who 'showed up' finally (I've only been prodding Bruce to start posting for a month now)


I'd love to see actual ballistic and penetration tests on a 22, bet you they aren't 'all that', especially when heavy winter jackets become involved.

Funny too because at the show last weekend I met a really nice older gentleman that commented on my Kimber while we were outside smoking. After some small talk he exposed (and pulled out BTW ) an ancient 22 revolver ... the thing fit in the palm of his hand.

I don't know what these people think they are going to do with them but it sure isn't going to stop anyone I can think of.

[Tootie]

Hi Bruce


Yeah I didn't get that tiny pistol, cute as a button but I can't see it doing too much damage or have any use in stopping power.

[27hand]

Hey looky who 'showed up' finally (I've only been prodding Bruce to start posting for a month now)


I'd love to see actual ballistic and penetration tests on a 22, bet you they aren't 'all that', especially when heavy winter jackets become involved.


I don't know what these people think they are going to do with them but it sure isn't going to stop anyone I can think of.

They will make "multiple" shots to the face because the bad guy will stand motionless until they are done.
The .22 ballistics (while #'s are not quickly available) include pushing one after another to the brain stem by hitting the base of the first with the second and on and on till the 5th one pushes the first one "home" through the ocular cavity.

The BG will eventually drop like a rock.

I'm pretty sure that is the reasoning here.

Just my thoughts.

[Bruce Eimer]

Hey looky who 'showed up' finally (I've only been prodding Bruce to start posting for a month now)

I'd love to see actual ballistic and penetration tests on a 22, bet you they aren't 'all that', especially when heavy winter jackets become involved.
Funny too because at the show last weekend I met a really nice older gentleman that commented on my Kimber while we were outside smoking. After some small talk he exposed (and pulled out BTW ) an ancient 22 revolver ... the thing fit in the palm of his hand. I don't know what these people think they are going to do with them but it sure isn't going to stop anyone I can think of.

Hi Dave,

Never say never. After all, no one thought I'd take the plunge with a new web guru--"buster".

Anyway, the point of this discussion is that the .22 is OK as a last ditch save your derriere B.U.G. But, to assume that it is enough is delusional. Yes, it is easy to carry. But you have to have a back up plan and back up weapons if that's all you are going to carry, unless it is a backup. There are plenty of small handguns that are plenty adequate (J frames, little pocket 9's, even a reliable .380). With this gentleman, I don't think the issue was "I do not want to carry a slightly bigger gun". I think it was "I know the chances of my needing a gun are slim so I might as well carry a little .22." That IMHO is stupid.

Best,

/Bruce

[dc dalton]

I don't think I'd even use a 22 as a back up back up back up. A 380? maybe, a 32 auto? maybe but a 22? Nope that ain't gonna happen.



Oh and you better say hello to Tootie or your web updates are't going to ever be right!

[Franky4Fingers]

I do a lot of "redneck ballistics tests" and I'm quite confident of a .22LR's ability to do some serious damage. The CIA and Marine Corps figured that out a long time ago when they commissioned the High Standard HD (subsonic suppressed).


There's a thread on this board that someone linked to another board where a guy shot a subsonic .22LR 300 yards in 15 mph winds and it went through 6 layers of clothing, piece of paper, several layers of duct tape, and all the way through a still partially frozen turkey ... and kept going.........sideways (the bullet tumbled in the air due to the wind)

Yet there are stories of men being shot multiple times with the ultimate death ray (.45 ACP) and still keep going. Winter clothing isn't going to do jack squat in stopping a .22LR unless your coat is kevlar.

Like others said many times, shot placement....shot placement.

[Tootie]

Hi Dave,

Never say never. After all, no one thought I'd take the plunge with a new web guru--"buster".

Anyway, the point of this discussion is that the .22 is OK as a last ditch save your derriere B.U.G. But, to assume that it is enough is delusional. Yes, it is easy to carry. But you have to have a back up plan and back up weapons if that's all you are going to carry, unless it is a backup. There are plenty of small handguns that are plenty adequate (J frames, little pocket 9's, even a reliable .380). With this gentleman, I don't think the issue was "I do not want to carry a slightly bigger gun". I think it was "I know the chances of my needing a gun are slim so I might as well carry a little .22." That IMHO is stupid.

Best,

/Bruce

Well the chances of Miami getting hit by a hurricane straight on are slim too, but it will happen. So do you not have a evac plan as a JIC or do you sit and deny that it could ever happen. I have to agree, very foolish.