Which round is better for self defense, 9mm or .40 S&W

[mbinpa]

Ok, let's forget the math for a sec.

Another way of looking at this would be to what the caliber of choice is for PDs and Law enforcement?

This is not a rhetorical question - does anybody know?

If I recall correctly the history goes something like:

.38 spec. revolver
.357 revolver
9mm for higher capacity

The .45 ACP was generally ruled out as being 'uncontrollable' with the typical LEO training.

I know the 10mm was developed specifically for law enforcement but has not caught on.

What is the standard police caliber now? Isn't there a ton of DOJ testing on this?

[mjporreca]

I respect him as a shooter and as an instructor, but I question why he soley relies on "their testing" and not others as well. The US military has now at several points in history gone back to the .45 for the reason of anything else just isn't combat effective. And they are basing this off of shooting at real people in real situation, not tests and simulations.

That said, .45 ACP isn't an option he is looking at so there must be more criteria than damage to attacker, like he says, number of shots and speed of strings.

Personally I like .40 more than 9mm for lots of reasons. But I don't carry either for selfdefense. I carry .380 because it is the best fit for all the things I need to consider including size of the firearm. I'm tempted to try some of the small 9's, but none are the size of the .380 pockets yet.

I say carry what you are comfortable with, that you feel is adequate, hope you never need to use it, but be ready if you do.

[Huskyoverlord]

I respect him as a shooter and as an instructor, but I question why he soley relies on "their testing" and not others as well. The US military has now at several points in history gone back to the .45 for the reason of anything else just isn't combat effective. And they are basing this off of shooting at real people in real situation, not tests and simulations.

That said, .45 ACP isn't an option he is looking at so there must be more criteria than damage to attacker, like he says, number of shots and speed of strings.

Personally I like .40 more than 9mm for lots of reasons. But I don't carry either for selfdefense. I carry .380 because it is the best fit for all the things I need to consider including size of the firearm. I'm tempted to try some of the small 9's, but none are the size of the .380 pockets yet.

I say carry what you are comfortable with, that you feel is adequate, hope you never need to use it, but be ready if you do.

Lower prov member? You shoot USPSA?

[MrBear13]

The better placed shot is the better caliber. They say about 80% of pistol caliber wounds are survivable, so focus on features of the individual firearm that works for you and not so much the caliber, then proceed to train.

[mikenac]

I'm not sure I buy that one pistol round is not more effective than another.

Compare this (357):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7w4M-LNXuQ

and this (10mm):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8z49L...er_profilepage

to this (9mm):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wo4c9...er_profilepage

Between .40 and 9mm, I don't really see too much difference though.

[Valorius]

If they used 9mm+P+ @ 1400fps the result would have been almost identical to the Gold Dot load. All the big, impressive TWC is considered to not be an additional wounding mechanism by most "experts" at handgun velocities.

[renalp]

What is the standard police caliber now? Isn't there a ton of DOJ testing on this?

.40 S&W is currently the most popular among LE depts and state / federal agencies, but some are sticking with 9 mm (NYPD being the most notable).

[renalp]

The US military has now at several points in history gone back to the .45 for the reason of anything else just isn't combat effective. And they are basing this off of shooting at real people in real situation, not tests and simulations.

And the fact that they're limited to FMJ.

[mjporreca]

Lower prov member? You shoot USPSA?

Not a member because the rifle shooting restrictions are too high. USPSA is a big reason I like .40, although I don't regularly compete...yet.

And the fact that they're limited to FMJ.

very true

[GregorOneEye]

Another matter to consider is that while everyone will stand and preach about how one should practice with their carry ammo. What this mean is in 9mm, your self defense rounds +p and +p+ are going to have significantly different recoil characteristics than the fmj you are practicing with. Anyone who says otherwise has never fired 115gr target fmj and 124gr +p/+ on the same day at the range.

My 180gr speer gold dots shoot nearly identical to my 180gr target fmj. That's a plus in my book. Once I use a box or two for function tests, there's really no need to practice with my expensive carry ammo.

I think this is worthy to be re-quoted as it is an excellent point.

This was the main reason I went to 40 from 9, I was practicing with 115 grain and carrying 124+p and decided that wasn't the best idea because of exactly what jcabin said. Great post jcabin.