READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania

[DianeL]

[QUOTE
Also it sounds like someone from PA that lives in say Philly that cant get a permit there, but has a florida cant carry in a vehicle with it now? [/QUOTE]

I was always under the impression that it is the state of citizenship that applies to the exception. A resident, as an example, who is a citizen of Pa. and obtains a Florida non-resident CCP can only use that CCP in Florida and not use it as if the same as his resident permit in Pa. He would not be recognized as being in accord with his own states reciprocity laws with other states.
I have a Pa CCP but if I go to a state like Maryland my Pa CCP would not be recognized but if I applied for a non-resident permit in Maryland it would only be recognized in Maryland and no other state since my permanent residence is in Pa. Am I wrong in my assumption?

[Statkowski]

I have a Pa. LTCF but if I go to a state like Maryland my Pa. LTCF would not be recognized but if I applied for a non-resident permit in Maryland it would only be recognized in Maryland and no other state since my permanent residence is in Pa. Am I wrong in my assumption?

As far as Pennsylvania is concerned, since you are a citizen of the Commonwealth, you need a Pennsylvania LTCF in order to carry concealed, or carry in a vehicle, etc., etc.

As far as Maryland is concerned, your Pennsylvania LTCF is irrelevant and you require a Maryland non-resident permit in order to carry there.

As far as other states recognizing such Maryland permit, it depends on the state. Some states that recognize the Maryland permit require that you be a citizen of the State of Maryland, others do not.

Confusing? Agreed. Since the U.S. Constitution, to which the several states are parties thereof, requires that they respect and honor all rights and privileges of the several states - and a Pennsylvania LTCF is one of the privileges you have of being a citizen of the Commonwealth. Unfortunately, most states do not abide by that part of the contract to which they agreed when obtaining statehood status. It is the power of the State to regulate commerce within that state, but a PERSONAL firearms license/permit is not commerce. But, I'm only a mere citizen, so what do I know.

[GunLawyer001]

As far as Pennsylvania is concerned, since you are a citizen of the Commonwealth, you need a Pennsylvania LTCF in order to carry concealed, or carry in a vehicle, etc., etc.

As far as Maryland is concerned, your Pennsylvania LTCF is irrelevant and you require a Maryland non-resident permit in order to carry there.

As far as other states recognizing such Maryland permit, it depends on the state. Some states that recognize the Maryland permit require that you be a citizen of the State of Maryland, others do not.

Confusing? Agreed. Since the U.S. Constitution, to which the several states are parties thereof, requires that they respect and honor all rights and privileges of the several states - and a Pennsylvania LTCF is one of the privileges you have of being a citizen of the Commonwealth. Unfortunately, most states do not abide by that part of the contract to which they agreed when obtaining statehood status. It is the power of the State to regulate commerce within that state, but a PERSONAL firearms license/permit is not commerce. But, I'm only a mere citizen, so what do I know.

States have inherent police powers, as a consequence of being states. "State" being used in the original sense, the way that France and Germany are states, the way each of the 13 original colonies became a state after independence from Great Britain.

A Pennsylvania LTCF is an exercise of the police power, and that power can't extend into other states without their permission. "Full faith & credit" doesn't mean that PA can issue a law license that allows me to practice in Ohio, for example.

Drivers licenses are a special case, and are the subject of Federal rules and incentives. Marriage licenses and adoptions have so far been recognized in every state. If you sue someone in Pennsylvania and win a judgment, you can take that judgment to any other state where the defendant has property, and it will be recognized. "Full faith & credit" applies to many things, but not all things. And Harrisburg can't supersede the laws of other states, by issuing licenses to possess an unaltered AR-15 in NJ, for example.

That's law. As a policy matter, I think that it's pretty clear that armed good guys are overwhelmingly a major force to deter crime, and every state should encourage safety and preparedness. Since nearly every spree shooting has taken place in a gun-free zone, it would be rational to eliminate most gun-free zones.

[Statkowski]

"Full faith & credit" doesn't mean that PA can issue a law license that allows me to practice in Ohio, for example.

This is true. An attorney, or doctor, or electrician, or teacher, etc., etc., etc. cannot practice their profession in a state unless licensed in that state. This is regulating commerce, and it is their prerogative so to do.

However, Article. IV, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states: "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."

As stated, marriage licenses and driver's licenses of each State are recognized in the several States. I submit, even as a mere citizen, that firearms licenses, which are not the regulation of commerce, should likewise be recognized.

[GunLawyer001]

This is true. An attorney, or doctor, or electrician, or teacher, etc., etc., etc. cannot practice their profession in a state unless licensed in that state. This is regulating commerce, and it is their prerogative so to do.

However, Article. IV, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution states: "The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."

As stated, marriage licenses and driver's licenses of each State are recognized in the several States. I submit, even as a mere citizen, that firearms licenses, which are not the regulation of commerce, should likewise be recognized.

You might want to read my post again.

[Statkowski]

I did. You wrote:

"Drivers licenses are a special case, and are the subject of Federal rules and incentives."

Rules? The federal government insists all driver's licenses meet certain biometric standards elsewise the TSA will get upset at airports. Not all licenses meet such standards. Incentives? The threat to withhold transportation funding is not what one would consider an incentive.

"Marriage licenses and adoptions have so far been recognized in every state. If you sue someone in Pennsylvania and win a judgment, you can take that judgment to any other state where the defendant has property, and it will be recognized."

Article 4, Section 1 covers legal proceedings and such. Marriage licenses, adoptions and lawsuits certainly fall under this section. A marriage license can certainly be viewed as a contract since it grants both parties certain legal protections, not always available under "common law" arrangements, depending on the state.

"'Full faith & credit' applies to many things, but not all things. And Harrisburg can't supersede the laws of other states, by issuing licenses to possess an unaltered AR-15 in NJ, for example."

I was not aware that Harrisburg granted licenses to possess unaltered AR-15s. Harrisburg does grant licensees the privilege of carrying a firearm concealed, as long as one meets certain requirements, but Harrisburg retains the right to determine what firearms are legal or not, as does New Jersey.

[GunLawyer001]

. .

I was not aware that Harrisburg granted licenses to possess unaltered AR-15s. Harrisburg does grant licensees the privilege of carrying a firearm concealed, as long as one meets certain requirements, but Harrisburg retains the right to determine what firearms are legal or not, as does New Jersey.

You didn't pay enough attention to the parts about "inherent police powers".

No, Harrisburg doesn't issue licenses to possess AR-15's. The absence of any law banning them is enough for PA residents. But Harrisburg lacks the power to tell NJ that you can take your AR-15 through Trenton. And it means that Harrisburg lacks the power to tell NJ that your PA LTCF gives you rights in NJ that you would not have without the LTCF.

Forget about "regulating commerce", that's irrelevant to this. States do plenty of things that have nothing to do with commerce, such as setting the age of consent, what counts as assault, and whether you can throw your old TV in the trash.

PA's police powers stop at the border, where NJ's begin. NJ says you can't carry a gun in NJ. That's an exercise of NJ's police powers, which exist independently of the US Constitution. PA's decision to allow you to carry concealed within PA has literally zero impact on what you may do in NJ, unless NJ chooses to recognize the LTCF. Which it won't.

[Statkowski]

I think you're hung up on "inherent police powers" and I'm hung up on "regulating commerce."

However, you're the professional; I'm not. I must defer to your opinion while respectfully disagreeing with the rationale.

Would you possibly agree that it might well make a very interesting lawsuit?

[ideaman]

I looked up "Police Powers" and it says the 10 amendment of the Constitution, reserves to the states the rights and powers for the protection of the welfare, safety, health and even morals of the public. Police powers denotes the basis for many regulatory subjects, such as licensing, inspection, zoning, safety regulations, and working conditions as well as law enforcement. Police powers may be used, for example to detain people or search things like vehicle.

It is a general term that expresses the fundamental power vested in every state to limit and regulate the exercise of private rights in the interest of public health, public morals, public safety, and the general welfare of the community. Governments have exercised police power to prohibit the sale of liquor and cigarettes and gambling. Cities and towns have prohibited the making of bricks in a town, the maintenance of livery stables, public laundries, billboards, public garages, coal yards and slaughterhouses.

Doesn't this give gov. Christie the state's right to quarantine that nurse for the protection of the N.J. public?

[PAMedic=F|A=]

I think you're hung up on "inherent police powers" and I'm hung up on "regulating commerce."

However, you're the professional; I'm not. I must defer to your opinion while respectfully disagreeing with the rationale.

Would you possibly agree that it might well make a very interesting lawsuit?

If we are going to get into the common law weeds of inherent police powers, then we are going back to before the Founding of our nation, & into Briosh Consitutional law.

Then we can talk about how Citizen subjects of the Crown could of course have all manner of arms & this was, at the time of our rebellion something that was questioned. The illegal enforcement of weapons prohibitions (cannon & excess powder) was what sparked the battle of Lexington as good subjects of the crown resisted illegal use of police powers.



Of course; I am not a lawyer, or a master of 18th century law. I have however read some of the arguments imploring the King & Parliment to obey the law of God & England.