Phila. Gun License Dept. Experience Today

[.45Kimber1911]

During this Philly LTCF interview process could an applicant refuse to (possibly) testify against himself by pleading the Fifth Amendment? Or, would they somehow be able to turn the tables on him and use that as an excuse to deny the license?

It's up to them to do their own investigation, but can they coerce you into participating? Reminds me of the "Do Not Talk To The Police" video.

I did a little research on that particular tactic and found information on another message board where someone tried that and was denied for being uncooperative. I figured I would play along to see what information was asked because someone here in another thread said that they basically went over everything that was on the state approved application form and did not elaborate any further as to the additional questions. Having never gone through the process before, I did not know exactly what to expect until I experienced it for myself. It is kinda like trying to describe to someone what a rollercoaster ride feels like that has never been on one. There are plenty of videos out there and pictures that you can get information from, but until you experience it yourself, you will never be able to know and understand.

Having just turned in my application this past Friday, I assume it will take them a couple of days to generate a denial letter. Once I get a specific reason from them, I will work on my appeal defense. If it is denied for "character or reputation" clause, I am going to request that the interviewing detective and anyone else that reviewed my file please provide their license to practice psychology as this is the only person capable of rendering such decision in a legal capacity in my opinion according to state professional licensure laws. I play to appeal if denied with support from a lawyer and letter of competency from a gun friendly licensed psychiatrist.

Depending on the costs, I may also decide to pursue this further for violation the Uniform Firearms Act. I'd be curious to know what it takes to establish a class action lawsuit.

[Statkowski]

I'd be curious to know what it takes to establish a class action lawsuit.

Probably, at a minimum, a RTKL request on how many people were denied for the same reason.

[mythaeus]

My experience was very similar to yours, but without any of the attitude. I didn't fill out my reason, the detective asked me what for, then followed up with "Self-Defense?" and filled it out without my answering the question. I also had several tattoos which when I started telling her, she stopped me and just said "multiple". I even missed one of the required proofs of residence because I read the instructions incorrectly. She asked it I lived nearby, I said yes, and told me to go home and get it. When I returned, she let me butt in line to finalize the form.

My wife was a non-US citizen at the time and went for her license a month or two later and also was treated respectfully.

In all fairness, this was before I joined PAFOA or know to ask the question of 45-day period. There have been several Philly members who received their license in 4 to 6 weeks, one got it in under 3 weeks IIRC. I think this is something that should be raised to Lt. Lisa King, the head of the GPU. The detectives who perform the interviews are just telling you what they are told. Given your 2 DWI's and what transpired in that interview room, I'd be anxious to know if they will issue you the LTCF.

Al

[ViperGTS19801]

There's an awesome pair of recording sunglasses that someone used for the Phoenixville Gun Buyback program...

...which leads me to a question. Do public officials (police officers, desk jockeys, paper-pushers), while performing their duties at the Gun Permits unit or the County Courthouse, have an expectation of privacy or non-interception while you are applying for an LTCF?

...hmmm...

[mrjam2jab]

There's an awesome pair of recording sunglasses that someone used for the Phoenixville Gun Buyback program...

...which leads me to a question. Do public officials (police officers, desk jockeys, paper-pushers), while performing their duties at the Gun Permits unit or the County Courthouse, have an expectation of privacy or non-interception while you are applying for an LTCF?

...hmmm...

It's not private property...

[BimmerJon]

There's an awesome pair of recording sunglasses that someone used for the Phoenixville Gun Buyback program...

...which leads me to a question. Do public officials (police officers, desk jockeys, paper-pushers), while performing their duties at the Gun Permits unit or the County Courthouse, have an expectation of privacy or non-interception while you are applying for an LTCF?

...hmmm...

I would say no, in public areas... but anyone else that is in the room or within earshot would (private persons).

[PreserveandProtect]

Do public officials (police officers, desk jockeys, paper-pushers), while performing their duties at the Gun Permits unit or the County Courthouse, have an expectation of privacy or non-interception while you are applying for an LTCF?

Sticky one there...

The current and *sometimes* upheld guideline is if a public official is performing their public duty in public, they do not have an expectation of privacy.

But consider that an act such as moving to a separated location (such as an office or area), even if it isn't sound proof (can be overheard) or a telephone call (this one goes back and forth, but mostly "no recording" wins) *could* be enough to create an expectation of privacy.

Logic says it would. But logic would also tell you that if an officer has you traffic stopped in a secluded area, even though he is in public, it would be reasonable to expect privacy. But so far recording a traffic stop is winning in courts as okay. (not always- sorry, don't remember the ref on this one)

Also, many courthouses have signs posted in certain areas (ie courtrooms) prohibiting recording and photography devices. I don't know if that extends to the other offices or not? Something to look for.

OTOH, if you did have a (voice) recording and wasn't sure about getting in trouble, you could always use it privately to document the events in a journal and use that instead. A few exact wordings are good, but a "transcript" might raise suspicion.

Disclaimer: The comments above are for discussion only and should not be construed as legal advice. Yadda-yadda-yadda. You know the rest. Confirm the accuracy, make your own choices, assume your own risk, etc.

Just because *I* may personally take an action does not mean I am recommending someone else takes the same or similar action.

BTW, a camera is pretty easy to notice up close. Even the concealed ones. And suddenly showing up with a pair of glasses your DL doesn't call for and you didn't wear last time may raise suspicions.

Besides, you have enough details and as long as you are documenting it (Journal, hint, hint), you likely have enough to make a complaint without playing super spy

[TheWolff]

If you are in view of their security cameras, does that mean the officers have already consented to being videotaped? Does that consent cover any recordings they might not be aware of?

[whoshisface]

I know we have her address and email and phone number. Someone post it please.

Let us know when you contact her to tell her please!

My experience was very similar to yours, but without any of the attitude. I didn't fill out my reason, the detective asked me what for, then followed up with "Self-Defense?" and filled it out without my answering the question. I also had several tattoos which when I started telling her, she stopped me and just said "multiple". I even missed one of the required proofs of residence because I read the instructions incorrectly. She asked it I lived nearby, I said yes, and told me to go home and get it. When I returned, she let me butt in line to finalize the form.

My wife was a non-US citizen at the time and went for her license a month or two later and also was treated respectfully.

In all fairness, this was before I joined PAFOA or know to ask the question of 45-day period. There have been several Philly members who received their license in 4 to 6 weeks, one got it in under 3 weeks IIRC. I think this is something that should be raised to Lt. Lisa King, the head of the GPU. The detectives who perform the interviews are just telling you what they are told. Given your 2 DWI's and what transpired in that interview room, I'd be anxious to know if they will issue you the LTCF.

Al

[freesoul]

There's an awesome pair of recording sunglasses that someone used for the Phoenixville Gun Buyback program...

...which leads me to a question. Do public officials (police officers, desk jockeys, paper-pushers), while performing their duties at the Gun Permits unit or the County Courthouse, have an expectation of privacy or non-interception while you are applying for an LTCF?

...hmmm...

thats a question that can only be correctly answered by an attorney wearing a black dress and sitting on a podium a foot or so above everyone else in the room