It finally comes to an end - "Offer of Judgment" reached with Philadelphia

[Glock9mm]

I may have have mistaken my reading as undue criticism, and for that I am sorry. Challenging you, or anyone to head to the city and open carry was certainly not a taunt, merely calling out the BS of those (very possibly not you) who think any of the situation may have been easy (even for the officers involved). I do not believe they were trying to single him out, or even thought they were doing anything wrong. I think it proves the gross negligence in the overall community of policing to understand the basis of the laws, not just the specifics. In their mind they may have thought they were detaining what may in their mind be a felon, and escalated a situation to an EXTREMELY dangerous level. Hopefully this case serves at least as an awareness, and they learn from it. I honestly believe nothing will change until someone is shot though, they seem to be slow learners. And their anti gun politics will not change in the near future. Limiting gun rights is their business, and that snake has many heads in the Philadelphia government from the COP, DA to the Mayor and Judges.

I guess I would be the 7th person you know of that could handle the situation, but I would never put myself in that situation due to my extreme distrust of the level of training and knowledge of the PPD as a whole. I would never trust my life to someone that could react in such a way, and would just as soon keep it covered. That was just a piss poor scenario of extreme force used to resolve a peaceful incident. I would hate to hear what would happen if a car back fired on the same street.

My apologies for reading into the posts. I see entirely too many posts of people jumping on others here after the fact, when a person exercised reason and his own wishes in a situation, and in the end don't match up with what someone else thought the outcome should be different. After all, we are all in this together, and our numbers are few comparatively.

[Valorius]

It does not matter how much of a trail blazer in the face of the PPD if one folds when the chips are down. Getting arrested is the relatively easy part.

Folded? Mark?

He could have easily pled his case down to a fine or probation at any point, but he made sure he kept going back over and over despite all the continuances, and he got his NG verdict.

Mark did not fold.

Since mark's verdict i have open carried several times in Philly with some outlandishly flashy OC rigs (wood gripped stainless Ruger wheel gun in a leather cowboy holster, or my 'suppressed' Ruger 22/45), and no one has said boo to me about it.

I would not have dreamt of open carrying in Philly before Mark's verdict.

[Valorius]

But your case has no legal precedent for future cases or incidents.
That is what a lot of people were looking for. Maybe that needs to come out of a criminal case instead of a civil one. Since the PPD admitted liability of criminal behavior.... when does the criminal suit start against them like they did one you?

His not guilty verdict most certainly does set a precedent though.

[gnbrotz]

His not guilty verdict most certainly does set a precedent though.

Uh...NO it does not.

Just like GunLawyer's acquittal on school carry via the 'lawful purpose' defense, this case was decided at the Common Pleas level. As the lowest level of (real) court, verdicts rendered there have zero legal precedence in other cases - even in that very same court. A ruling from a higher court may have some binding influence on other cases that come before a lower court.

When people throw around the word "precedent", perhaps they should specify between practical precedence and legal precedence. There are many court decisions that may increase confidence and embolden others to likewise stand firm in similar circumstances (practical precedence), but mean absolutely nothing towards resolving the final outcome of the situation within the court system (legal precedence).

[Valorius]

If you're going to chide someone with giant black letters, you might want to double check your spelling...just sayin'...

It is a 'practical precedent' by your standards. The Philly's DA office is a lot less likely to bring similar charges as those that they tried to railroad Mark with, having gotten them smacked down in a high profile case already.

Anyone that says his efforts didn't make a huge impact on the right of philadlelphians to OC should strap on some iron and come take a stroll through the city. Cops don't even bat an eye at me when i OC here any more.

[ViperGTS19801]

For the record, last evening I was out with my lovely lady for a small party just off of South Street. We stopped at Wawa to grab some cash, and on the way back towards South, two Philadelphia PD officers were walking towards us. They walked on by, either not noticing or not caring.

Not proof or anything, but worth mentioning, FWIW.

[mjfletcher]

For the record, last evening I was out with my lovely lady for a small party just off of South Street. We stopped at Wawa to grab some cash, and on the way back towards South, two Philadelphia PD officers were walking towards us. They walked on by, either not noticing or not caring.

Not proof or anything, but worth mentioning, FWIW.

Ok Junior, Im gonna call shenanigans on that. Either they weren't real cops or you weren't there.

[Valorius]

Today's OC rig, made possible by Mark:


I would have been shot on sight by PPD had i been seen with this in pre-Junior Philadelphia.

[Gun]

If you're going to chide someone with giant black letters, you might want to double check your spelling...just sayin'...

It is a 'practical precedent' by your standards. The Philly's DA office is a lot less likely to bring similar charges as those that they tried to railroad Mark with, having gotten them smacked down in a high profile case already.

Anyone that says his efforts didn't make a huge impact on the right of philadlelphians to OC should strap on some iron and come take a stroll through the city. Cops don't even bat an eye at me when i OC here any more.

Refresh my memory, but weren't charges filed a month or two later, and do you
think charges would have been filed had Mark not made the recording viral, or even
not had a recording period.

[ViperGTS19801]

Had I not had a recording, the PPDs official policy on OC would remain that it's not legal, and a judge would have to sort out all the weapon possession cases coming into the system.

Had it not been put online, the PPD likely would not have come after me with frivolous, trumped-up charges, which in turn would have prevented the media attention, which in turn would have made this entire case significantly less of a hot topic in the local news.