I think they are the same thing but the Valor line seems to have a 33% premium on them. The Nato round is supposedly 10-15% hotter and is considered a +P in various publications and I see the FPS listed as 1200 & 396lb/ft which coincidentally is the same that I've found listed for the Valor. Normal loads are listed at 1120fps & ~332 lb/ft.

The problem is looking at threads from the past 2-3 years I've gotten widely different stories with people reporting the same product/UPC (and same packaging/printing on the box) listing 3 different speeds, from the normal 1120, 1140, 1142 & 1200 for the Nato rounds. This doesn't give me a lot of confidence but I'm wondering what might be going on here. At $.29 per round the 124gr Nato seems like a good deal for running in a 16" carbine but the variation in speed gives me pause. I haven't seen the same problems listed with the Valor series but I suspect they are a much more limited run & distribution (Winchester even says they are a promotional "celebration" product of the armed forces - which is why they are loaded the same as the Nato spec) and at $.40 per round, I'm not sure they look so good anymore & this is probably another reason people haven't posted as many reviews b/c why spend so much more & they are available at limited locales.

Anyone have any experience with these or can maybe point me in the right direction? At the way prices are climbing, I'm almost considering just loading my own 9mm since I've found CCI primers for $.06 each (at 1000 packs), which is a heck of a lot better than the $100-120 people were scalping 4 years ago!