Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Are there any courses being offered in PA for evasive/defensive driving vehicle control in various road conditions high speed maneuvers etc?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    There used to be Skip Barber and Bob Bondurant racing/driving schools. I think one was in the Poconos.

    Not sure if they still exist.

    Any good course is probably held someplace warm and will be expensive.

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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Are you looking for a EVOC(Emergency Vehicle Operators Course) or are you looking for a track environment where you can learn some stuff and have fun or are you looking for vehicle dynamics training plus tactical car to car contact skills such as PITS, Rams, attack scenarios, etc.?

    If you can give me more details in terms of exactly what you are looking for I can give more tailored answers to you and what would suit your needs.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    There used to be Skip Barber and Bob Bondurant racing/driving schools. I think one was in the Poconos.

    Not sure if they still exist.

    Any good course is probably held someplace warm and will be expensive.
    Yes in this industry you get what you pay for. Costs compared to the 1990s when I started have jumped significantly due to increased insurance costs, overhead and track rental costs.

    Bob Bondurant passed away, the school went through difficulty and has now been taken over by other people and rebranded. Not sure how things are going with them.

    Skip Barber went through bankruptcy or near bankruptcy, went through various ownership issues but has now been consolidated and rebuilt and after 10 years of turmoil, seems to be doing OK. They have an established curriculum and seemed to have worked out their issues. Skip has nothing to do with the school anymore and hasn't for years.

    The problem is today that people want to skip competency, learning and skill development, so as a result the "Drive an exotic car" on track with 10 minutes of instruction type stuff has proliferated and many of the established driving schools have struggled.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Quote Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
    Are there any courses being offered in PA for evasive/defensive driving vehicle control in various road conditions high speed maneuvers etc?
    Drive around Pittsburgh for a week. You'll learn more than you expect.

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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Quote Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
    Are you looking for a EVOC(Emergency Vehicle Operators Course) or are you looking for a track environment where you can learn some stuff and have fun or are you looking for vehicle dynamics training plus tactical car to car contact skills such as PITS, Rams, attack scenarios, etc.?

    If you can give me more details in terms of exactly what you are looking for I can give more tailored answers to you and what would suit your needs.
    More with practical angle to take with kids who are about to get behind the wheel. EVOC opened to civvies, dynamics and/or tactical driving not necessarily PIT stuff, skid recovery, maybe some high speed control, J turns that sort of stuff. If I get to have fun on a track that's fine but not a primary requirement.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    LOL this more a refresher for me along with learning experience in humility for the kids who are about to get behind the wheel. I drive in NJj and Philly on a weekly basis pittsburgh is a walk in a park compared to that. There used to be a ton of those courses back in a day and now I can't find any.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Quote Originally Posted by wanneroo View Post
    Yes in this industry you get what you pay for. Costs compared to the 1990s when I started have jumped significantly due to increased insurance costs, overhead and track rental costs.

    Bob Bondurant passed away, the school went through difficulty and has now been taken over by other people and rebranded. Not sure how things are going with them.

    Skip Barber went through bankruptcy or near bankruptcy, went through various ownership issues but has now been consolidated and rebuilt and after 10 years of turmoil, seems to be doing OK. They have an established curriculum and seemed to have worked out their issues. Skip has nothing to do with the school anymore and hasn't for years.

    The problem is today that people want to skip competency, learning and skill development, so as a result the "Drive an exotic car" on track with 10 minutes of instruction type stuff has proliferated and many of the established driving schools have struggled.
    Wow. Thanks for the updates. I know Ford had some specialty schools for their Mustangs, but not sure if they still do. I don*t think the Mach E needs it. LOL.

    I went out to the Michigan State Police Vehicle Testing decades ago and they had a week long intensive EVOC class. But I would have had to pay on my own and probably never get to use the techniques here.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Quote Originally Posted by matrosov View Post
    More with practical angle to take with kids who are about to get behind the wheel. EVOC opened to civvies, dynamics and/or tactical driving not necessarily PIT stuff, skid recovery, maybe some high speed control, J turns that sort of stuff. If I get to have fun on a track that's fine but not a primary requirement.
    Well for kids starting out, I would look at Skip Barbers Driving Academy:

    https://www.skipbarber.com/courses/driving-academy/

    They go to different tracks like New Jersey Motorsports Park, Lime Rock Connecticut, etc.

    They have a very established program and curriculum. Once your kids complete that you can look at other things.

    Also out there is Ford Driving Skills for Life which is oriented at teenagers, as well as B.R.A.K.E.S which is sponsored by Kia. These programs travel around the country to different venues and they both have good instructors and in addition they only usually charge a nominal fee or it's free.

    Also you can look at Summit Point Training Center in WV which sometimes has open enrollment for driving courses.

    Another course I strongly recommend for anyone ever out in Colorado during ski season is the Bridgestone Winter Driving School at Steamboat Springs. There is no other facility in the USA that has a winter or ice driving course better than theirs.

    J Turns are dead these days for practical purposes and are no longer taught to the US military and government agencies unless they request it. Too many problems with people flipping over armored vehicles in the Middle East and Africa and ending upside down. In fact too many cops flipping themselves over too doing failed J turns. I personally know of several situations where failed J Turns in operational situations have put themselves into life or death strife. I find it takes people longer to become proficient in J Turns and there is really too much risk involved getting them wrong or flipping over a high center of gravity vehicle.

    The wise thing to do is the Y Turn. Reverse out from danger and keep backing until contact is broken, then execute a Y turn at 5-10 mph(modified 3 point turn) and carry on with your day, much safer and more sensible than trying to be a hollywood stunt man and then having the bad guys swarm your vehicle, pull you out and then cut your head off or beat you to death.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Suggestions for Defensive/evasive driving course

    Quote Originally Posted by Carson View Post
    Wow. Thanks for the updates. I know Ford had some specialty schools for their Mustangs, but not sure if they still do. I don*t think the Mach E needs it. LOL.

    I went out to the Michigan State Police Vehicle Testing decades ago and they had a week long intensive EVOC class. But I would have had to pay on my own and probably never get to use the techniques here.
    Ford has/had a Mustang school out at Miller Motorsports Park in Utah, looks like they have moved to Charlotte Motor Speedway. I hear they have a pretty good program.

    Well these days I think what cops need is some situational driving courses. Big areas I see for cops to work on is driving in reverse, dealing with high center of gravity vehicles and also things like immediate action drills in the event of ambush, driver down, perhaps even vehicle evacuation.

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