Man going to jail for finishing AR lowers for customers

[Gunsnwater]

This reminds me of an old saying. You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

[Sgt.K]

What if someone rented time at a 'maker space' kind of location? Just curious if that would fall under the same umbrella. Like a small shop that has woodworking and metalworking tools and machines, 3D printers, etc. and people just bought time for use of the shop, but did their own work. Places like that exist, but I don't know if the firearm aspect is permitted or legal.

This conversation right here is why we need to abolish NFA, GCA, ATF, and the whole rest of the gun control alphabet. It's not needed. Criminal punishments should be based solely on the harm(s) done, not the tool(s) with which they were committed.

It's already illegal to kill someone, assault someone, rob someone, etc. Why does the tool matter?

My 2¢

[KCJones]

You just can't do that, he should have known the law, even if you don't agree with it.

Ditto. Agree or not the (current) law is very clear on this.

[Boo Vuccla]

Default Re: Man going to jail for finishing AR lowers for customers
It's a fucking cnc mill, why didn't the idiot just let his customers press the button to start it?

The main issue is that he was "profiting" from the use of his CNC. If he is charging customers/friends/etc for the use of the equipment, irregardless of who is doing the actual setup of the lower on the jig, he has now transformed himself into the definition of a firearms builder who is not licensed. Oh and the BATF doesn't like that apparently.

[HKusp 45]

This reminds me of an old saying. You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose, but you can't pick your friend's nose.

Everyone says that .....until Cuervo is involved then all bets are off.

[Kramer]

For years the ATF was ok with building your own firearm since it took some time to make. Now that it's easy and quick they can not handle that, plus they feel if you are making your own firearm, then you must be a prohibited person.

[abner13]

Perhaps he can get off if he says he did it because he's upset over the election results.

[esh21167]

This conversation right here is why we need to abolish NFA, GCA, ATF, and the whole rest of the gun control alphabet. It's not needed. Criminal punishments should be based solely on the harm(s) done, not the tool(s) with which they were committed.

It's already illegal to kill someone, assault someone, rob someone, etc. Why does the tool matter?

My 2¢

I think most would agree with you, but that's not the immediate question.

The main issue is that he was "profiting" from the use of his CNC. If he is charging customers/friends/etc for the use of the equipment, irregardless of who is doing the actual setup of the lower on the jig, he has now transformed himself into the definition of a firearms builder who is not licensed. Oh and the BATF doesn't like that apparently.

So again. Let's say there's a maker space that rents machine/equipment time. The person renting the space and equipment does everything, save for maybe a little direction of general tool/machine use, here are the tools kind of stuff. Does that classify the owner of the maker space as a firearms builder? If I go into such a place and 3D print a firearm part, is the owner of the 3D printer a manufacturer/builder?

[gold cup abuser]

I think most would agree with you, but that's not the immediate question.



So again. Let's say there's a maker space that rents machine/equipment time. The person renting the space and equipment does everything, save for maybe a little direction of general tool/machine use, here are the tools kind of stuff. Does that classify the owner of the maker space as a firearms builder? If I go into such a place and 3D print a firearm part, do I fall under ITAR regs?

Per ATF if a business does this kind of work then they are 'engaged in the business' of manufacturing. Does not matter how much control you have over the equipment. They did a 'ruling' a while ago about this and build parties. That is why you no longer see those happening anymore. Has to be your hands from start to finish and your tools. This is a separate issue from ITAR. This has been know about in the build community for some time now. To make it worse this person was openly advertising his services.

Most times you poke the bear you will lose.

[USMC3531]

I think most would agree with you, but that's not the immediate question.



So again. Let's say there's a maker space that rents machine/equipment time. The person renting the space and equipment does everything, save for maybe a little direction of general tool/machine use, here are the tools kind of stuff. Does that classify the owner of the maker space as a firearms builder? If I go into such a place and 3D print a firearm part, is the owner of the 3D printer a manufacturer/builder?

IMO if it was all manual machines and you are working on your stuff alone itd be ok in my eyes, walking in and hitting go on a preprogrammed cnc is one reason these guys got in trouble, if you wrote the program it may be different. all just my opinion