Heidelberg Sportsman’s Association Multi Gun Shoot

[HSATom]

thanks you to all who came to shoot, hope you had a good time. The arcade is just a fun stage to change the pace, only wish we could shoot one on one
Glock 357 your welcome to come the club to set up a stage any time you want. I won't be their in June, (Shane will be in match director) but would like to see you in July I'll be their Friday the day before, we will help you set it up,then on the day of the shoot you can explain the course to the R.O. and we'll see how it goes

[GLOCK 357]

thanks you to all who came to shoot, hope you had a good time. The arcade is just a fun stage to change the pace, only wish we could shoot one on one
Glock 357 your welcome to come the club to set up a stage any time you want. I won't be their in June, (Shane will be in match director) but would like to see you in July I'll be their Friday the day before, we will help you set it up,then on the day of the shoot you can explain the course to the R.O. and we'll see how it goes

Tom assuming your offer is sincere I may take you up on it. It will be harder for me to get there especially for two days now that I recently moved to King of Prussia I do have a friend that lives close by and has offered to put me up for a night so I will check with him to see if possible. I haven't been back since the big blowup last year over your professional brass picker.I really see no concern in giving RO's a stage briefing and having them understand it, it happens hundreds of times across the nation every weekend.

My comments about the "tactical" part is it seems like in the last recent years that the shoot has really gotten away from anything remotely tactical. Examples: when's the last time someone had to load the rifle on the clock? When is the last time somebody had to go prone with a pistol or even a rifle? I remember one time going prone under the car with a pistol to shoot a plate to present a shoot target. It just seems like the stages are being set up to confusing for the participants. With no true sense of "tactics" just stand in place and shoot as fast as possible. Which is fine it's your shoot I just feel that "tactical shoot" no longer applies.
By the way it wasn't me that said "I could run the shoot better"I actually gave you two thumbs up.

The last time I went, it took 8+ hours to run 4 stages. The safety brief wasn't a safety brief, but a bitch fest about how people are taking brass that isn't thiers. The rest of the day was ran monotonously and slow. The guy who runs it did prove that you can make something too safe, to the point where it interfered with the dynamic of the match. Maybe he was making up for the lack of a quality safety brief. If you want to shoot a real multi-gun match, look into the two gun series being put on at New Holland.

It apears they make thier rules up as they watch the latest epsiode of '3-Gun Nation'. This is what you get when you have people running a match with no tactical or competitive experience. I could put on a better match while high on bath salts using something abstract like red solo cups as targets.

[tripleS]

I'm not one to respond for others but in this case I will briefly. Yes Tom is sincere! Any help that we get is more than appreciated. Believe it or not there is only a few people who make the whole shoot happen. And I can tell you first hand it is a thankless job! If we didn't enjoy shooting I'm sure we all could find something else to do the 3rd week of the month.

While on the topic, since we encourage new shooters to the sport. There are several things that have been changing to cut down on the time it takes to complete the shoot. With that said ask yourself this. If we have 55 shooters, only 35 of them show up with mag pouches or shell holders. That leaves 20 shooters digging in there pockets for ammo, magazines and shot shells. What do you do? How long will the shoot take to have 20 competitors load 20 rounds in a magazine pulling 2 or 3 out of there pocket at a time? Same thing with the shotguns, we proved that a shotgun loading table helps move things along smoothly, but with that you need cooperation and understanding from the shooters that when your next up, on deck or in the hole you need to be at the loading table with everything ready to go.

The car was mentioned and was a great addition to the shoot. Unfortunately it needs repaired since it got broken when it fell off the trailer last year. Time has not allowed it to be repaired yet (we all work full time, and some of us multiple jobs) If your available this Saturday your more than welcome to join the club work party. If the car is put back together I'll be up for shooting under it, over it or whatever fits. Unfortunately with all the other items on the agenda for the work party I can't dedicate myself to nothing but that.

Shane

[animalmother85]

While on the topic, since we encourage new shooters to the sport. There are several things that have been changing to cut down on the time it takes to complete the shoot. With that said ask yourself this. If we have 55 shooters, only 35 of them show up with mag pouches or shell holders. That leaves 20 shooters digging in there pockets for ammo, magazines and shot shells. What do you do? How long will the shoot take to have 20 competitors load 20 rounds in a magazine pulling 2 or 3 out of there pocket at a time? Same thing with the shotguns, we proved that a shotgun loading table helps move things along smoothly, but with that you need cooperation and understanding from the shooters that when your next up, on deck or in the hole you need to be at the loading table with everything ready to go.

Shane

It's easy. When you announce the shoot, have a mandatory gear list. If the shooters share gear, then it's easy enough to set up the roster right before the first stage so those shooters don't shoot back to back and can swap gear, load mags, or do whatever they have to do to complete the stage. If shooters don't have said gear, then they don't shoot.

As far as shotguns go, unless you're shooting for big prizes/money or have a breaching stage, get rid of them. The whole shotgun thing is silly anyway...I don't care what they say on 3-Gun Nation.

Also, get prizes. People like to win stuff. You can reach out to any local vendors and they'll be glad to donate. Ask Kerry Woods how easy it was and how much he got in free merchandise for prizes(a substantial bit). Most vendors will mail it direct, you don't have to spend a dime.

With those simple changes, you'll have a better turn out of better shooters, cutting down on the time taken as well.


I don't know what happened over time, but when I first went to Heidelberg, it was a good and enjoyable shoot. It just seems to have gone bureaucratic.

[derghost]

If I was unhappy with an event, I simply would not attend.

[animalmother85]

And if everyone thought that way, attendance would drop, and eventually the matches would be no longer. That is not what I'd like to see happen. I'd like to see if improve and flourish.

Maybe I'm crazy, but in the army, you get counselings, weather it be quarterly or biannually. They tell what what you're doing right and what you can improve on. Even if you're squared away, you can still be better. By providing negative feedback with ways to improve, it gives a clear and concise path to do so. By saying nothing and taking the passive-aggressive way out of not saying anything or just 'not showing up', how does that let those who run the match know what some of the gripes, moans, bitches, and complaints are? How can they improve? A simple AAR(after action review) of; What was supposed to happen, What did happen, Three sustains and Three improves after every match would pay off in dividends.

[JMIS]

And if everyone thought that way, attendance would drop, and eventually the matches would be no longer. That is not what I'd like to see happen. I'd like to see if improve and flourish.

Maybe I'm crazy, but in the army, you get counselings, weather it be quarterly or biannually. They tell what what you're doing right and what you can improve on. Even if you're squared away, you can still be better. By providing negative feedback with ways to improve, it gives a clear and concise path to do so. By saying nothing and taking the passive-aggressive way out of not saying anything or just 'not showing up', how does that let those who run the match know what some of the gripes, moans, bitches, and complaints are? How can they improve? A simple AAR(after action review) of; What was supposed to happen, What did happen, Three sustains and Three improves after every match would pay off in dividends.

Not sure where to start?

I like Tom and the guys at H-Berg.

I shoot this match 1-2 times a year. It's a match my 67yr old dad can shoot, so I go shoot it with him. In one of your earlier post you said NO shotgun, if anything this is the perfect match for more shotgun. 10-20yd rifle shots are easy. It's a 3gun match! Side note I love shogun.

You say bring on sponsors like New Holland, this is a monthly match not a series. I shoot and help with York and Topton monthly multi gun matches plus USPSA and a few major matches threw out the year. Monthly matches have no sponsors.

Attendance has not dropped in this match since it started. The problem is that99% of the shooters that shoot this match don't shoot other matches that have tuffer rules on gun saftey. I have never seen a DQ in the scoring results ever. This is my only concern. The match has been running long enough. It's time to start DQing unsafe people.

Let me also say, I take my hat off to Tom, Shane, Steve and all the guys and the nice girl that does scoring and squadding to make this match possible.

From the way it sounds you have an open invite to help with this match, Get there early and help with set up and all the other things that make a match possible. If you can't or won't then don't show up. It's America, as of now you still have a choice

Be back later, gotta get another beer!

[animalmother85]

It's listed as a multi gun match, not necessarily 3-gun. Again, shotguns are silly and take up too much time.


Yes, start cranking down on folks, but only as much as the rules permit giving the shooter the benefit of the doubt.

You don't have to have a series for sponsors to give out prizes. It's up to whomever is in charge/the powers that be to see how they get handed out to the winners. Langhorne has done that many times.

Bring in new blood.

If they'd allow me, sure, I'd help. However, it's going to have to wait about a year until I'm done school down here at Ft. Bragg.

This could be a badass little match. It has the perfect ranges. You could have the first shots fired at 0800 and clean up done by 1300-1330 as long as there is a sense of urgency, standardization, and no shotguns, plus a form of prize payout.

[tripleS]

The shoot is listed as a multi-gun shoot as it is. It's not listed as a pistol shoot, or a 2 gun shoot. If that is what you want to shoot than by all means our shoot is not for you! We have never twisted anyone's arm to come to participate at our shoot nor do we plan to.

I'm not sure why you think the shotguns are silly. It's your opinion and your entitled to it. Personally I like them and there are several others that must like them as well or they would not participate!

As far as prizes go, if you feel you need to shoot for prizes our shoot is not for you! My take on it is our monthly shoot is meant to be a fun shoot. If prizes were involved I could hear all the crying from a few 3 people already. So and so has an advantage over me and its not fair to me, his ammo doesn't kick as much as mine does. Maybe we need to get a few fuzzy pink stuffed bunnies to hand out.

I will agree with you that it is a nice range for what we have to work with. It will be nicer once we can get some more yardage on a stage or two.

As far as starting at 8am never going to happen. We have neighbors and starting at 8 is out of the question. And as far as cleanup, there is generally a good bit of help to tear down, and occasionally we get several people to help put everything away.

So I'm told the CampTown Ladies enjoy our shoot!

[animalmother85]

Ok, you can't start at 0800. Start at 1000 like you do;

I'm not saying that I need to shoot for prizes but it helps attract a higher quality crowd and puts a little pep in their step. As it seems the last time I was there, everyone was pretty laissez faire.


Shotguns are silly.
Rifles=offensive/defensive weapon
Pistols=defensive weapon
Shotguns=breaching tool

You asked what should be done. I gave you some examples.