Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Action alert on HB2011 regarding Pre-Emption

Rep Mike Turzai has committed to move HB 2011. This bill strengthens pre-emption by providing for standing and compensation of expenses in the event a local law needs to be challenged that conflicts with State gun laws. Corbett said he will sign if it is put on his desk in the remaining 11 days left to the legislative session.

For more information and updates on these efforts, and to get involved, CLICK HERE


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  #71 (permalink)  
Old September 7th, 2011, 08:12 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Hey IHDiesel check your inbox
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  #72 (permalink)  
Old September 7th, 2011, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

If it matters, this is what 410 buck & slug does to ballistic gelatin:


Quote:
410 bore

Winchester 410 bore 3 shell, 5 pellets of unplated 000 buckshot

Barrel was a break-action, 18 smoothbore

Mean pellet impact velocity was 1107 0.500 ft/sec

Average penetration was 18 0.031

Block calibrated at 612 0.500 ft/sec and 9.3 0.05cm penetration

Curiously, the temporary cavity on this round never seemed to collapse from its approximately 1.5 0.031 diameter magnitude, for the entire length of the 16.0 0.031 block. All rifle and pistol projectiles seem to create a temporary cavity at the initial inches of penetration and then collapse to the size of the permanent cavity. This load produced an approximate 16x1.5 diameter temporary cavity.

Quote:
Penetration = 5.0 0.031" due to breaking-up of projectile. All that was found after the shot was two small shards of lead and the entire volume up to 5.0 0.031" filled with powdered lead.

Impact velocity = 1782 0.500 ft/sec

Barrel was 18.0 0.031" smoothbore with full choke

Block calibrated at 575 0.500 ft/sec and 8.7 0.05cm penetration
Source
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  #73 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 04:41 AM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

The slug might have held together better if fired from a cylinder bore barrel of the same length due to less distrotion of the projectile.
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  #74 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 06:32 AM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

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Originally Posted by Exbiker View Post
Cheap HD. Mossberg Model 500 Special Purpose $279 to $299.
+1.. That is exactly what I have sitting in the bedroom. For the cost, it is more than an equitable solution for home defense. The 12ga is an absolute cannon, a devastating weapon.
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  #75 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 12:39 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfletch83 View Post
Hey IHDiesel check your inbox
Thanks for the tip!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jshwak View Post
+1.. That is exactly what I have sitting in the bedroom. For the cost, it is more than an equitable solution for home defense. The 12ga is an absolute cannon, a devastating weapon.
No one is disputing that 12 gauge 00 buckshot + bad guy = game over. My concern is the implications of firing a 12 gauge with buckshot in a 4' wide hallway with 8' ceilings in the dark, having just been woken from a dead sleep by the dog barking, noises outside, etc...from what others have said it's the equivalent of a flash bang going off next to your head.
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  #76 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 02:53 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHDiesel73L View Post
Thanks for the tip!
Not a problem.

The federal Load uses copper washed pellets four to a shell.

The copper coating should help it resist flatening over the plain lead stuff.

But even with plain lead the penetration of the .410 is high on the list of bad guy nightmare fuel.
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  #77 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 03:12 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by IHDiesel73L View Post
Thanks for the tip!



No one is disputing that 12 gauge 00 buckshot + bad guy = game over. My concern is the implications of firing a 12 gauge with buckshot in a 4' wide hallway with 8' ceilings in the dark, having just been woken from a dead sleep by the dog barking, noises outside, etc...from what others have said it's the equivalent of a flash bang going off next to your head.
I hate to break it to you. But anything going off in a hallway is going to be rough. Might as well get it over with as quick as possible. The idea of launching 9 .33 caliber projectiles with only one flash bang going off still trumps 4 with a slightly smaller grenade going off 20" from my face.

If they are in your home and things go south, I want them down and not shooting potentially hitting me or people I care about ASAFP. There is no compromise. If I could own a micro grenade launcher that detonates inside the person after 3-4" of penetration turning them inside out. I would pick that instead.

But until the people exploder 9000 becomes a viable option. I pick 12 gauge. The .410 still gives you the option of multiple projectiles for a given trigger pull increasing the amount of damage per shot. But if that's the route we're going, then let's just go the rest of the way. (12 gauge) Or at least most of the way - 20 gauge.

I'd take a .410 over a pistol.
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  #78 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asmodeus6 View Post
I hate to break it to you. But anything going off in a hallway is going to be rough. Might as well get it over with as quick as possible. The idea of launching 9 .33 caliber projectiles with only one flash bang going off still trumps 4 with a slightly smaller grenade going off 20" from my face.

If they are in your home and things go south, I want them down and not shooting potentially hitting me or people I care about ASAFP. There is no compromise. If I could own a micro grenade launcher that detonates inside the person after 3-4" of penetration turning them inside out. I would pick that instead.

But until the people exploder 9000 becomes a viable option. I pick 12 gauge. The .410 still gives you the option of multiple projectiles for a given trigger pull increasing the amount of damage per shot. But if that's the route we're going, then let's just go the rest of the way. (12 gauge) Or at least most of the way - 20 gauge.

I'd take a .410 over a pistol.
The 12 gauge is a fine defensive weapon but...

How well could said setup be used by all members of the family ?

The .410 offers less recoil as well as bulk and weight of both the the gun and ammo,more can be carried for the same ammount of space...say like on a buttstock ammo carrier (8-9 shells using a rifle ammo carrier).
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  #79 (permalink)  
Old September 8th, 2011, 07:46 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by FAL-SHOOTER View Post
I would use a 12 gauge personally, but I wouldn't feel unarmed with a .410.
Or underarmed. On a person, inside of 10 yards, .410 can be lethal. If the intruder is not wearing heavy clothing or armor of any kind, one chest shot can kill. I too would rather have a 12 guage, but a .410 will work for me if it is what I have.
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Old September 8th, 2011, 10:02 PM
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Default Re: .410 as a home defense shotgun

Quote:
Originally Posted by 300WM View Post
Or underarmed. On a person, inside of 10 yards, .410 can be lethal. If the intruder is not wearing heavy clothing or armor of any kind, one chest shot can kill. I too would rather have a 12 guage, but a .410 will work for me if it is what I have.
The '000' buck is going out of an 18.5 inch cylinder bore barrel @1200 FPS (listed velocity)

The gel test shows 15-18 inches of penetration or over with plain lead,think about how much tougher the copper washed stuff is going to be on target.

Even with heavy clothing that speaks volumes for the smack that stuff is going to give the target.
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