[Green Lane] Seneca Arms Company

[Huntin'Fool]

wow i just read back several pages and some people are just unreal and play the race card at every chance they get. this seems like that to me.


john is a great guy and has always done me good on talking and advice. He knows i am very straight foreward and respect him for his knowledge and expierence. i have reccomended him to everyone i know and will continue to do so for a long time. His prices are good and his service is even better.

If he could only have an O/U i am looking for then i would be real happy, but thats asking a little much.

[CrowKing]

If you consider all sides of this issue, you'll see that it is actually John that is being discriminated against. I don't want to put words in John's mouth (so correct me if I'm wrong), but from his side of the counter, you have to consider a few things:

1. Attempting to purchase a firearm is a felony if you don't pass the background check. By asking to see your CCW, John is trying to keep you out of trouble. He has no idea what your knowledge of the laws are and despite the fact that he has it posted in huge letters all over the store, people still don't get it. Once he makes that phone call, if you don't pass it you're in big trouble. But if he recognizes you as a previous purchaser, he doesn't need to see your CCW anymore.

2. Once a firearm leaves John's store, he is still connected to it but has no control over it. Just because you pass a background check doesn't mean you won't use it for nefarious purposes. If its used in a crime, it comes back to him. Its in all FFL dealers' interest to avoid this. By showing your CCW, you demonstrate that you are a law abiding citizen and far less likely (as the statistics for CCW show) to commit a crime.

3. Law enforcement regularly goes into retail firearms stores to see if they can entrap the proprietor in a straw purchase or some other illegal activity. By asking for the CCW of anyone he doesn't know, John demonstrates to them that he is not interested in these types of transactions and will in no way engage in that type of activity. The quality of this policy is demonstrated in its outcomes - he has never had an issue or infraction. Ever. He won't do it for friends, for family, for anyone. If God walked into the shop and John smelled something fishy, out the door He'd go, smiting or not.

4. The FFL is the first line of defense when it comes to keeping guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them. John's policy of asking to see the CCW permit of someone he doesn't know is a sensible means of doing his ethical duty as a proprietor of firearms.

In the end, these policies protect both the buyer and the seller. I've known John for over 20 years and have never seen him discriminate against anyone. If anything, it is he who gets discriminated against for just enforcing good sense policies.

I know this because I was in the store two feet away from goforbroke when John asked him for his CCW as I've seen him do a million times before and there wasn't anything racist about it. He doesn't care what color or creed you are. He's just a good FFL. The reason goforbroke got the cold shoulder is because once John asked him for his CCW, he suddenly got a huge chip on his shoulder and proceeded to give John shit about something he knows nothing about. And he admits in this forum that he was upset because of race - a white guy wanted to see his CCW. And that, my good friends, was racial discrimination by goforbroke.

[RNMCB21]

This is odd. I've been in this store a few times, and while I've never purchased anything there the owner seemed pretty personable to me. My brother-in-law went with me once and received the same treatment I did.

Hello's and have a nice day.....and in the middle, nice conversation. He did ask him if he had I.D. but that is because he has a real thick New York accent. John was surprised when he saw a PA DL after asking him what part of NY he's from. He didn't get upset as this has happened at EVERY shop we've been in. He told us straight forward he had to make sure he was a PA resident. No problems with that from us.

Just a good FFL guy trying to keep his nose out of trouble and not make it harder for the good guy's (read law abiding citizens) to keep our rights.

Maybe I need to spend some $$$ there to show my support. I don't think John would mind.

[King 5.45]

I sent my neighbor to John, and he picked up a 9mm pistol from him on Thursday or Friday, I think. I wouldn't be sending people there if I thought that there was an issue. John's respectful of his customers, but he isn't the kind of person to take unnecessary 'tude from somebody just to make a sale. It's his shop, and as he said above in the thread, he isn't exactly begging for business, and he doesn't have to.