Clay Days # 2 PAFOA / PMSC Clays (Pitcairn Monroeville Sportmens Club, 505 Mosside Blvd., North Versailles, PA 15137): May 11th, 2008

[XD45]

the way I took it was the public can go and shoot trap on sundays for only the price of birds, if a person comes only for that then why would they need to pay the $5?

Frenchy, I'd say keep it seperate from the group shoot that way their pissing contest doesn't end up on your leg. It seems you went out on your own to make this finally happen so instead of getting shit on for it you could just worry about yourself and the shooters that came for the fun and not the bullshit that some seem to only go for. It has all become way way way beyond ridiculous for such a small informal ''fun'' event, at this point they could just about plan themselves yet stuff is basically sent to NASA for a final review.

[dleverknight]

Originally Posted by XD45

the way I took it was the public can go and shoot trap on sundays for only the price of birds, if a person comes only for that then why would they need to pay the $5?

Frenchy, I'd say keep it seperate from the group shoot that way their pissing contest doesn't end up on your leg. It seems you went out on your own to make this finally happen so instead of getting shit on for it you could just worry about yourself and the shooters that came for the fun and not the bullshit that some seem to only go for. It has all become way way way beyond ridiculous for such a small informal ''fun'' event, at this point they could just about plan themselves yet stuff is basically sent to NASA for a final review.

Very well said Clay Days# 2 is posted as a seperate shoot AND GROUP SHOOT #15 IS POSTED AS SOMETHING ELSE . French I would go with the seperate shoot and have Ron dictate what is to be Charge

[Montanya]

I really think that with both shoots going on with members from the PAFOA we need to all put our own ego's on the sideline and think ONLY for the better of the shooting sports and the fun of the people who show up. Cat fighting and pissing contests don't benefit anyone. If Frenchy needs help with the trap shoot of course I am gonna help, at the same time, if there is a need for my help on the upper bays or for raffles etc, I will be thrilled to help.

What happens is the passionate people let their emotions take over and post things that they might later regret or without regard to other people's feelings. If you are passionate about something and someone questions it or wants to rain on it, you get pissed and want to lash out. We need to all remember that we are all on the same side, working toward the SAME GOAL!

I honestly think the clays should be a part of the regular shoot, I am not running either of the shoots so that's not my place to say, just stating my opinion. Lets keep our heads together and keep finding ways to make these shoots ROCK! (without clawing anyone's eyes out)

[Frenchy]

Originally Posted by Emptymag

Yes, I'm curious too.
The standard "guest fee"(anyone not a PMSC member)is $5.00.
Was there some provision made to allow guests to shoot clays for a reduced rate?

This is either part of the group shoot or it is not.
(I'm guessing it is not, but it "is" at the same time. A tad confusing)

I am all for introducing people to a new type of shooting, but this is precicely the reason I was not in favor of a "skeet" or "long range rifle" shoot at the group shoots. When you break up the shooters into separate areas of the club, it is no longer a "group shoot".

I really don't know why you are asking seeing you already stated you don't shoot clays...

Club posted price is $3.00 for 25 and $5.00 for 50, its on the web page, it is the price I was told i could use by Ron at the time I asked him.

Clays do not require a membership, it is regularly used to attract people to the club. Clays are regularly open shoots to the public. The only thing that ties this Clay shoot to the Group shoot is its the only time I can hold it when there are Keys there.

Now if the people who are not shooting Clays and who are espcially not shooting or even remotely interested in clays would let this thread alone so the people who ARE interested could come without feeling intimidated then we could continue.

This part of the shoot is not part of the PMSC shoot other then being held on the same date so people who just want to try it can.

[BearTitan]

Originally Posted by dleverknight

Very well said Clay Days# 2 is posted as a seperate shoot AND GROUP SHOOT #15 IS POSTED AS SOMETHING ELSE . French I would go with the seperate shoot and have Ron dictate what is to be Charge

FWIW, Ron, as the president, does not dictate what can and can not be done. He is helpful and will answer any questions you have, but is not "the boss".

If the clays thing is part of the Poofa shoot, then Koli makes the rules. End of story. There is no democracy on this type of stuff. When I go to an IPSC event, I don't argue with SteveD about the setup. When I go to a CMP shoot, I don't argue with Bill Chessman about the shooting order. When I go to a BB gun shoot, I don't argue with Mark Cleaver about the distance we are shooting.

If it is not part of the regular shoot, then I think it is in pretty poor taste to have a competing event at the same time on the same day as the group shoot. We have become our own worst enemies. The division among the group has these shoots, literally, ready to stop ocurring.

Glad I am taking a vacation from this bullshit. You guys should know that all the keyboard commandos are killing the shoots. Take away guys like Koli and you will be left with 10 guys shooting a round of trap on a Sunday morning.

Anyway, just my $.02. Like I said, I am retired from being in charge of this thing.

[Emptymag]

I shouldn't need to "prove" anything to anyone, but here's what I had posted on the PMSC forum:

Although it may appear differently on the PAFOA forum, I really AM supportive of you guys(Frenchy, Monty, etc.)stepping up to "make it happen".

I have no interest in skeet/trap, but if it can be used to bring people to the club and get them interested in the shooting sports, that's a GOOD thing. In today's increasingly anti-gun environment, we really need to get, and keep people involved.

Good ideas can start out kind of rough, but with some effort, and planning, those ideas can become reality.

I can see good things for the shotgunners of PMSC in the future.

(Can I use my Persuader for skeet? )

The "problem" here seems to stem from the (now edited) wording that was originally posted in the header/info at the top of the page.

As I've already stated, it would have probably been better to have discussed this privately, and helped come up with a better way of describing the event to avoid confusion.

You are now stating(clearly)that the clay shoot is a separate event from the group shoot. Where the confusion came into play, was when you mentioned the "prayer" and signing up on the "upper range".

That was the part that made it seem as though it were a part of the group shoot, and while some may feel this statement is "me being an ass" or some other such nonsense, the fact remains that the group shoots are a scheduled event and the fee has been set at $5.00 per non PMSC member.

Can you imagine being the one signing people in at the group shoot, and having people say, "I'm just shooting a few clays, here's my $3.00."?
It's simply a matter of organization, and not some sort of conspiracy to "shit on" someone.

Hell, I was thinking of making an "ad" for you to post for the next clay shoot. That's how badly I want your idea to fail, Frenchy.(sarcasm)

If we can all get together and work out the "bugs", we will be better for it in the end.

Virtual "shake"?


What say you?

[Hawk]

First off it is my understanding that only the "regular scheduled" trap practices are open to the public. What you are saying is that any Tom, Dick, or Harry (non-member) can come use our traps fields at any time. Sunday trap practices start at 1PM and these are open to the public for no additional fee than the rounds they shoot. Likewise members and their guests can make use of the trap fields anytime, provide the guest pays the $5 PMSC guest fee and all parties pay for the PMSC clays used. Secondly, I must of missed where Frenchy's Trap days broke off from the monthly group shoot. When Frenchy proposed it, it was my understanding that it was to be an "additional" activity of the group shoot, just like setting up another bay. As a member of the Jedi council I endorsed Frenchy's idea. If Frenchy's intension was to separate Trap Days from the group shoots then color me deceived.

[dleverknight]

I don't think it is the keyboard commanders that is killimg these shoots it is ass holes that want to make it hard for some one to try to introduce something new .AND THIS IS JUST MY 2 CENTS

[Montanya]

Originally Posted by dleverknight

I don't think it is the keyboard commanders that is killimg these shoots it is ass holes that want to make it hard for some one to try to introduce something new .AND THIS IS JUST MY 2 CENTS

As much as I am sure it is well intended to support Frenchy and his drive to make the trap shoot a part of the monthly PAFOA shoot, it's not really all that helpful in this case. I know he is trying to get things worked out for the benefit of everyone so lets just let him do that without namecalling of the people who give up their time nad put efforts toward making the shoots happen.

Danke,

[Frenchy]

For new info on this thread please read the PAFOA/PMSC thread here