9mm suitable for home defense?

[TJB63]

Random,

As soon as the weather in the east warms up some, I think I might try that Drywall theory, I saw someone else mention the same thing on another board, but I believe it was in a book called AR15 by some guy named Sweeny or something like that. I assume that a 5.56mm will penetrate 1 sheet of drywall pretty much intact, but I also assume that in a house of standard construction, it would probably splatter against the outer house covering, plywood, brick whatever. but then again, you know what they say about those of us that assume.

I have a video done in the 90's where the guy tested the 5.56mm, 7.62x39mm & a .308 against all kinds of cover including a car. I believe SWAT magazine did a similar test back in the 80's -- the bottom line was that the 5.56mm would not penetrate a car door or windshield -- a person sitting inside a car getting shot at with a 5.56mm was relatively safe with the end result being superficial wounds from the FMJ separation/glass fragments. Keep in mind they were using 55gr FMJs. Similar results were found against light vegetation and brick, plywood walls. In the video the 7.62x39mm naturally penetrated better, but had the tendency to keyhole and of course the .308 penetrated everything except the engine block. It was an interesting video and I'm not even sure if it is still available, If I was better at Tech stuff I'd try to post it somewhere, but it is about an hour or more long.

TJ

[Zeede]

Well, a nearby gun club I've been thinking of checking out is really big on trap and skeet. After I hone my skills on the .22 I might go into trap and skeet, which would mean I'd have to buy a shotgun.

Now I don't know anything about shotguns, but I'm sure that if it shoots clay pigeons well it should be sufficient for home defense. Might have to use a different kind of shot, but it should suffice.

Cameron

[andrewmyers]

yeah all this talk about bird shot not being a killer is really, well not really upsetting, but still i feel i should make this point....you can use more than 8 shot or dove loads, ive seen what 4 shot does to plenty of animals ive killed with it, squirrel, rabbits, pheasants, etc...you can use light loads, you can use heavy loads, the shot gun is versatile, more so than any rifle or pistol.....all i know is that if you hit someone in the neck-face region they will bleed to death at the very least and very quickly at that..and you can always blind someone with a shot to the face. thats enough to do whatever else you see fit to stop them. plus the point isnt always on killing, its stopping. a bean bag round will put someone on the ground very quickly. broken ribs, crushed skull, or even just the massive shock can stun someone. you might disagree, but the point isnt always on killing...but its nice to know you can kill with your gun, i will agree there.

[SteveXD]

Originally Posted by JustinM

Home defense = shotgun.

+1 on that! no need to aim just pull the trigger

[rich]

I believe Beretta also makes the storm in 45 acp which should hold less of a chance of over penetration than a 9mm or 9mm +p defensive round. In a carbine configuration recoil should be very manageable.

[gf45acp]

If the Storm in 9mm is what works for you, go for it. Do some research and pick a load that is 100% reliable in it. Try every mag you buy. With a long gun put a tac light on it, you will not have a hand for a flashlight while using it.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by SteveXD

+1 on that! no need to aim just pull the trigger

Only if you don't mind missing.


The nine is fine for home defense, the question is, are you fine for home defense? Practice, train, know your home and your abilities.

[rich]

Someone is selling a CX4 Storm in 45acp in the firearms section here
http://www.pafoa.org/forum/firearms-...ed-pgh-pa.html

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by andrewmyers

yeah all this talk about bird shot not being a killer is really, well not really upsetting, but still i feel i should make this point....you can use more than 8 shot or dove loads, ive seen what 4 shot does to plenty of animals ive killed with it, squirrel, rabbits, pheasants, etc...you can use light loads, you can use heavy loads, the shot gun is versatile, more so than any rifle or pistol.....all i know is that if you hit someone in the neck-face region they will bleed to death at the very least and very quickly at that..and you can always blind someone with a shot to the face. thats enough to do whatever else you see fit to stop them. plus the point isnt always on killing, its stopping. a bean bag round will put someone on the ground very quickly. broken ribs, crushed skull, or even just the massive shock can stun someone. you might disagree, but the point isnt always on killing...but its nice to know you can kill with your gun, i will agree there.

The smallest size buckshot that can reliably meet minimum penetration guidelines set forth by the FBI and IWBA is #1 buckshot. Anything smaller and you're taking chances. humans are larger animals than rabbits, squirrels and pheasants. End of story.

Originally Posted by SteveXD

+1 on that! no need to aim just pull the trigger

In reality, at average household shooting distances the pattern from your shotgun will be less than 5" It's very easy to miss if you do not aim

Originally Posted by rich

I believe Beretta also makes the storm in 45 acp which should hold less of a chance of over penetration than a 9mm or 9mm +p defensive round. In a carbine configuration recoil should be very manageable.

Using the same loads, there will be little difference if any in penetration or lethality.



In closing, if you are going to use a rifle for home defense, have it be a rifle caliber. Handguns are handguns and rifles are rifles. There is no major increase in lethality until we get into intermediate rifle cartridges. Here's some quick pro's and cons of common household defensive firearm choices:

Handgun:
-Pro: Maneuverability (may be important if you have a reason to leave your room and have one hand tied up securing your kids)
-Con: lower lethality and hit percentage than other choices, potentially limited capacity.

-Shotgun:
-Pro: Lethality, higher hit percentage (not from the spread, but from being a long gun)
-Con: Maneuverability, limited capacity, slow to reload, commonly selected pump-guns have a more complex manual of arms (operation under stress).

Pistol-Caliber Carbine:
-Pro: higher hit percentage (from being a long gun); capacity (some of them)
-Con: maneuverability, lethality is really not significantly better than pistol

Intermediate Rifle Caliber Carbine
-Pro: higher hit percentage, capacity, lethality
-Con: maneuverability