AR or Mini 14

[Mtbkski]

Why does the Mini 14 Heat up so much when it is shot and the AR doesn't? What makes the Mini heat up?

Someone I work with says that you can use AR magazines in a Mini. I don't believe it. Is this so or not?

Thought that the 223 and the 5.56 were the same round. Why can't you use the 5.56 in the mini?

[autorim]

Mtbkski, I would not be concerned about buying the Mini-14 if you like it. I have had one for years and it does just fine. I have fired some sub 1 inch 100 yard groups from mine with 55 grain Nosler Ballistic tips and with Sierra 69 grain HPBT.

I doubt you will wear the rifle out or shoot out the barrel. I have 30 round mags, but rarely use them. The 5 round mags work for me. As to add-on modifications -Why? We can add a bunch of accessories to our rifles and wind up with far more dollars in it than it will sell for and maybe it shoots better and maybe it doesn't.

As to not shooting 5.56 in the .223 - what's the difference. I do not have any reloading manual that makes any distinction between the two caliber designations as to loading data. I have fired 5.56 ammo in mine and the bullets came out of the barrel - not as accurately as my handloads though. I'm sure that there is a lot of junk 5.56 ammo out there that I would not shoot in anything. Buy or load good ammo, be safe and have fun.

[Agent Ronin]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Thought that the 223 and the 5.56 were the same round. Why can't you use the 5.56 in the mini?

For the most part the .223 Remington and the 5.56x45mm NATO are the same round. Except for the tiny details, and its in these details that can cause a potentially lethal situation.

Headspace is the heart of the issue, the SAAMI spec for the .223 is tighter than the NATO round. This is common with military rounds, due to so many different nations/arsenals producing this common caliber, the military specs are more generous allowing for more variation in headspace dimentions. Therefore, it is certainly quite possible to have a 5.56 round to be too large for the .223 chamber causing a out-of-battery fire. Which can cause catastrophic damage to the rifle and its user.

Now the other way around, you can use .223 remington in a 5.56mm chamber. I know i use commercial 308's in a 7.62mm NATO chamber, i just stick with 150gn. rounds so i dont overwork the rifle.

[JayBell]

having had both the mini-14 in the past, and the AR-15, i now don't have any mini-14, and have 7 AR15s.

that should tell you something aside that I have too much cash/free time on my hands

the mini 14 is not a very good wepaon, its lousy in accuracy, which is OK for plinking at dishwashers, but not so good for shooting at small targets.
the mags are iffy unless you buy factory hicaps at large cost.

replacement parts are available almost exclusively from ruger ONLY
if it needs repair, and it will, it goes to ruger.
'
get an AR, its a superior platform in every way possible, from sights, or maintenance, to accuracy, to ergonomics, to weight, and to repair and accessorize.

[RandomTask]

Originally Posted by Agent Ronin

Headspace is the heart of the issue, the SAAMI spec for the .223 is tighter than the NATO round. This is common with military rounds, due to so many different nations/arsenals producing this common caliber, the military specs are more generous allowing for more variation in headspace dimentions. Therefore, it is certainly quite possible to have a 5.56 round to be too large for the .223 chamber causing a out-of-battery fire. Which can cause catastrophic damage to the rifle and its user.

I read elsewhere that using 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber is not a problem as long as you stick with small (55gr or less) bullets. The larger bullets cause the headspace issue and increase the risk of catastrophe.
I have run 55gr 5.56 in my mini-14 without any hiccups.

Disclaimer: It is not a suggestion that you use 5.56 in a .223 chamber; I'm just reporting my experiences. Your mileage may vary.

BTW: I'm currently in the market for an AR-15, but I love the mini-14. I've been shooting 2" groups at 100yds (on the bench, iron sights, no sand bags) since I bought it in 1993. It's reliable and although the barrel gets hot, I think it can hold up to the rigors of severe plinking as well as post-Rodney King style urban unrest.

[luckyned7]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

Newbie here with more dumb questions to thrill your lives with.

Is there really that big of a difference in these two rifles. I know the Mini squeezed thru the last AWB. So, with what is going on again. This may end up being our choice again.

What makes the AR such a better rifle? Keep it simple. I don't understand all the minor details that you hardcore guys get into. I'm just looking for a weapon for "Just in Case" and to plink with. It isn''t going to see a ton of shooting. I just want a rifle around a the house for WTSHTF

I know there are lots more accessories for the AR, but how does reliability compare.

If I go with the KISS complex. Wouldn't a Mini 14 be a decent choice for a plinker, that can be counted on as a Defensive Weapon if the sh*t should hit the fan. I know the Magazines are hard to find. Why is that, when they are everywhere for the AR? Someone told me you could use AR magazines in a Mini 14. Any truth to this?

Can't talk first-hand about the Mini..never could get myself to buy one..so chunky. AR's: Never got the itch til recently. I can't use it for anything in PA except plinking and defense and....WHY aren't you considering an AK!? Ammo was 1.50 per 20..now up to 3.00 if you hunt compared to 9.00 for .233. You can't thump thru things with .233 like you can with an AK. A brand new Russian AK cost 300 compared to a Mini(500) or a AR(750) and that is doing your homework.
"If I go with the KISS complex" that is an AK! Will any of my AK hit 300 yards with a group-no. Will they destroy a target at 100yards-yes. Is it dirt cheap to shoot-yes. I'm going AR crazy currently but is it smart-no. It is an American gun based on a non-urban round that cost about 200 bucks per 500 currently and that is not a plinker in my opinion. Neither one are you going to own in a full-auto version so I'm here to ask..why not an AK? As a plinker..they rock and as a civil defense rifle...well..I think they are the world's civil defense rifle. A symbol of man-with machine-over all governments. (Ned jumps off soap box)

[Lycanthrope]

The AK style brake is effective. Bushmaster used them on some AR's. It will be louder......but that's moot since you are using hearing protection anyway....aren't you?

Of course not as bad as the spawn of the devil......the Mini Y comp.........

[Agent Ronin]

Originally Posted by RandomTask

I read elsewhere that using 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber is not a problem as long as you stick with small (55gr or less) bullets. The larger bullets cause the headspace issue and increase the risk of catastrophe.
I have run 55gr 5.56 in my mini-14 without any hiccups.

Disclaimer: It is not a suggestion that you use 5.56 in a .223 chamber; I'm just reporting my experiences. Your mileage may vary.

Ah thats probably due to the ogive of the heavier bullets, such as the 69gn SS109's. While i do not have numbers to back this claim, its probable that the NATO chambers have a more generous throat area. If this is the case, having the bullets up against the rifling when chambered presents dangerous amounts of pressure upon firing. Just my 0.02$

I think part of the issue also comes down to the questionable quality of some milsurp ammo that can exist. While anything made my Lake City Army Ammunition Plant is probably the best in the world, others might not have as good as tolerances etc.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Mtbkski

http://www.bushmaster.com/shopping/10-22/mmt-0018.asp

Just to get off this a bit. Has anyone ever used or seen one of these. I was thinking about getting one for my Mini-14.

They're effective at reducing recoil (what little there is from a 5.56) but at a cost of increased loudness.

[TonyF]

The case shoulder dimension of the 5.56 is different from the .223 remington.

I don't believe there is any danger shooting 5.56 in a rifle with a .223 chamber so much as there may be reliability (Failure To Feed) issues.

Same issue applies to 7.62 nato vs. .308 remington. We shoot milsurp 7.62 nato almost exclusively in our .308 bolt rifles with no ill effect.