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December 23rd, 2010, 05:02 PM #11
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
You are comparing 7.62x54R versus M1/M2 30-06 military ammo. Consumer grade 30-06 ammo exceeds mil-spec M1/M2 pressures and velocities. Which is one reason why you shouldn't use "hunting" ammo in your M1 Garand.
In reality with the ammo available for the hunter the 30-06 beats the 7.62x54R by a couple hundred foot pounds of energy. The 7.62x54R is closer to commercial .308Win levels. Most 7.62x54R hunting grade stuff goes about 2800fps with a 150gr bullet at about 2600fpe. Where as the 30-06 hunting grade goes about 2900fps with a 150gr bullet at about 2800fpe.RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515
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December 23rd, 2010, 05:12 PM #12
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
All true, and one could argue that handloaded the 7.62x54R could approach or equal the 30-06 commercial ammo.
In Abner's original post he didn't specifically refer to commercial loadings. In his follow-up post he compared military Light Ball 7.62x54R to military M2 Ball 30-06, and given those numbers the Soviet Light Ball wins by a nose in a photo finish.
That said, in response to the OP's question the answer is "Certainly, using hunting ammo."
NoahWisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times.
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December 23rd, 2010, 05:17 PM #13
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
Not to mention (I've read) the 30.06 not going sub-sonic until it hits around 1200 yards, and the 7.62X54R drops down to sub-sonic in the 850 yard range (out of the MN 91/30).
I've also read that the 7.62X54R is closer to the .308 than the 30.06.Last edited by Hawk; December 23rd, 2010 at 05:21 PM.
Toujours pręt
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December 23rd, 2010, 05:29 PM #14
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
Most certainly. Handloading can do all sorts of wonderful things. But when figuring potential, the one with the greatest cast capacity wins 9 out of 10 times given a properly built gun. The 1 time out of the 10 would be when the case's design is of a weaker nature like thin walls, web, or head which the reduces the potential.
Neither the 7.62R or 30-06 are of weak designs, but the 30-06 beats the 7.62R in capacity by 4grs of water allowing for more powder versus increased pressure to promote faster velocities. The SAAMI and CIP pressure limits to the 30-06 are 60KPSI and for the 7.62R are about 57KPSI. Greater case capacity + greater pressure limit = greater performance potential.
BTW, I'm not knocking the 7.62R. I think its a wonderful cartridge, and with it being rimmed - I prefer it. (I hate rimless cartridges)RIP: SFN, 1861, twoeggsup, Lambo, jamesjo, JayBell, 32 Magnum, Pro2A, mrwildroot, dregan, Frenchy, Fragger, ungawa, Mtn Jack, Grapeshot, R.W.J., PennsyPlinker, Statkowski, Deanimator, roland, aubie515
Don't end up in my signature!
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December 23rd, 2010, 05:42 PM #15
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
But . . . but . . . the 7.62x54R is in a STEEL case! That's stronger than brass!
(Tongue securely in cheek . . . )
NoahWisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times.
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December 23rd, 2010, 05:52 PM #16
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
If ya go to any of the big ammomakers sites that let ya do a heads up comparison , like Remington or Federal , and compare the .308 Win , 30-06 and 7.62x54R Russian , with equal bullet weights and types , it's very close. There's less than 100fps difference between the three.
US commercial ammo is held to 55,000psi (62,000MAX) for .308 Win , 50,000psi (60,000MAX) for 30-06 , but I'm not sure about the 7.62x54R.
Blow up tests done back in the 40s-50s by several gunsmiths and ballistics experimenters like P.O.Ackley showed the Russian Mosin Nagant to be an extremely strong action , stronger than the US 1903 Springfield and German 98 Mauser.Last edited by abner13; December 23rd, 2010 at 06:01 PM.
I don't speak English , I talk American!
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December 23rd, 2010, 06:16 PM #17
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
Yeah , this gets kicked around on the military rifle sites too.
Actually , pressure is the same. Barnes book shows the US Mil specs and they're the same. US 30-06 commercial ammo is supposedly held back to 50k because of rifles like the Rem 740 semi-auto , which makes no sense to me because that rifle was also chambered in .308 and .270 Win , which have higher pressures.
The main reason is the pressure curve. Which is why ya should stick to powders in the 4895 or 4064 burn rate. These are the powders which the Garand was meant to use. Op-rod cracking has been known to occur with commercial ammo , mainly using 180gr or heavier bullets. But ya just don't know what powders are used in commercial ammo , so it's better to be safe. Keep a good fresh recoil spring in those Garands too.
Many years ago , I shot thousands of commercial rounds thru my Garands. I would buy it during the pre-deer season sales when it was something like $3.99 for a box of 20 at K-Mart. I did know to stick with bullets in the 150-165gr range.
PS/BTW , there are adjustable gas plugs available for the M-1 Garand and M-1A if ya want to use commercial hunting loads with heavier or lighter bullets.Last edited by abner13; December 23rd, 2010 at 08:57 PM.
I don't speak English , I talk American!
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December 23rd, 2010, 06:30 PM #18
Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
Ya know at the end of the day, a couple hundred feet per second and a couple hundred Ft/lbs isn't going to kill your deer any faster. But a good shoot on the vitals will do the trick ricky tick!
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December 23rd, 2010, 06:36 PM #19
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December 24th, 2010, 12:13 AM #20Grand Member
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Re: Can you hunt with a Mosin-Nagant?
I think you are absolutely correct. The Mosin is powerful enough for any game East of the Rockies. And has enough distance potential to out shoot its rather crude sights. Were I comparing the M1 to the Mosin-Nagant for a hunting rifle, in pure terms of usefulness excluding Pa's stupid laws, I would pick the M1; not because it is more powerful or theoretically capable of staying above the speed of sound further. No, both rifles are more than powerful enough, but the M1 has excellent peep sights and the Mosin doesn't, therefore, I would be more confident about taking humane shots with the M1.
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