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  #1 (permalink)  
Old July 23rd, 2010, 11:55 AM
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Default 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

Hello everyone,


My main question is a 308 still as accurate at distance with a 16 inch barrel as opposed to, say a 20 inch or even 18 inch barrel . I am talking about maybe 600 yards tops for the kind of shooting that I do.
I am thinking this could be my main distance gun for my collection.The new LMT 308MWSE is what I am buying and it is only available in a 16 inch barrel version right now with longer, quick change barrels available at a later date. Does anyone have one or any experience with a 16 inch AR in 308. Would like to hear what you think about it vs longer barrels.

Thanks in advance
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 04:18 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

I don't have any experience using a 308 in an AR platform or in a 16" barrel. That being said, I've finally built my first AR and I do shoot a 308 bolt gun quite a bit. As far as accuracy goes, you shouldn't lose anything by going to a 16 barrel (over say an 18-20 incher). You will lose some velocity, but you'll still have plenty of juice to get you to 600 yards without issue. Accuracy is really going to depend more on the barrel than anything else (other than the shooter... and interaction with the trigger of course). If you shoot match bullets, or handloads (using something like a 155gr / 175gr SMK, or 178gr AMAX) you should be just fine.

Now, IMHO, 18" is the shortest that I would personally go for a 308 "distance" gun. A 16" barrel on a 308 platform is going to be a pretty handy gun. Might be great for a SHTF moment... or hunting in states that allow SA rifles. However, if you are going to buy it for mid range to long distance shooting, there isn't much reason to limit yourself to 16".

Personally, if I was in the market for a precision SA 308, and I was willing to spend the money on the LMT (they are like $2500 correct?), I would also be considering the GAP Precision AR-10 with a 20" barrel. It may not have some of the fancy features of the LMT; however, with a bartlein 5r barrel at it's heart... they do shoot... Not that the LMT won't! I do love LMT's monolithic upper design!
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 04:47 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

a good write up to go along with your new rifle would be nice(i.e. accuracy in 5 shot groups, how filthy it gets with what loads, any reliability issues, etc). It looks solid and it's nice to more companies putting out quality ar-10 style rifles.
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 06:28 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

Quote:
Originally Posted by animalmother85 View Post
a good write up to go along with your new rifle would be nice(i.e. accuracy in 5 shot groups, how filthy it gets with what loads, any reliability issues, etc). It looks solid and it's nice to more companies putting out quality AR-10 style rifles.
I sure will do a write up on it . I should be getting it on Monday, it's at my FFL as I write this, but alas he is at a gun show this weekend so I will have to wait until Monday evening. Can't hardly wait.

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Old July 23rd, 2010, 06:40 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

Quote:
Originally Posted by PSUfan1 View Post
I don't have any experience using a 308 in an AR platform or in a 16" barrel. That being said, I've finally built my first AR and I do shoot a 308 bolt gun quite a bit. As far as accuracy goes, you shouldn't lose anything by going to a 16 barrel (over say an 18-20 incher). You will lose some velocity, but you'll still have plenty of juice to get you to 600 yards without issue. Accuracy is really going to depend more on the barrel than anything else (other than the shooter... and interaction with the trigger of course). If you shoot match bullets, or handloads (using something like a 155gr / 175gr SMK, or 178gr AMAX) you should be just fine.

Now, IMHO, 18" is the shortest that I would personally go for a 308 "distance" gun. A 16" barrel on a 308 platform is going to be a pretty handy gun. Might be great for a SHTF moment... or hunting in states that allow SA rifles. However, if you are going to buy it for mid range to long distance shooting, there isn't much reason to limit yourself to 16".

Personally, if I was in the market for a precision SA 308, and I was willing to spend the money on the LMT (they are like $2500 correct?), I would also be considering the GAP Precision AR-10 with a 20" barrel. It may not have some of the fancy features of the LMT; however, with a bartlein 5r barrel at it's heart... they do shoot... Not that the LMT won't! I do love LMT's monolithic upper design!
Thanks for the info, I like LMT's 556 ARs and hoping the fit and quality will be the same.

I found alot of info on snipershide.com about this rifle and other than being heavy it seems like it's going to be a winner. I also found out that 18 inch blackened SS barrels will be available by September or October this year and it takes all of 10 minutes to switch out the barrels and that's taking your time.

Thanks,
Cybersurf
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Old July 23rd, 2010, 06:49 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

Congratulations... LMT is a great pick! I was considering it as an option prior to putting together my .308 16" (just finished it this week)

I really like some of the features on the LMT in comparison to the competition. They have great engineering and they probably put more R&D into their products than any other company (at least from what I read).

The post about the specific barrell being the determining factor I believe is correct since your question relates to accurracy. Taking away anything else regarding the various .308 AR setups and ammo being used, if you are asking about the variance of accurracy from a 16" to a 18"/20" then it boils down to how true the barrell is and how fast the projectile is moving.

I am by no means an expert on ballistics or fluid dynamics. From everything that I understand of the .308 cartridge it will lose most effectiveness from 600 yards and greater; while the velocity and accurracy difference from 600 yards and closer when comparing the 16" vs 18"/20" is literally splitting hairs. I am by no means saying a .308 cannot shoot with great accurracy beyond 600 yards, just that it loses a good amount of energy beyond 600 yards.

This is why I believe the 16" is the way to go in a .308 AR style setup and you made a fantastic pick with the LMT. Cutting edge technology, superb craftsmanship, top-notch engineering, spot on accurracy... it really does not get much better IMO.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 05:32 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

I definitely expect a full range report too I didn't notice that in your first post you had already made the choice to go for the LMT (lol my post would have been shorter).
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:58 PM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

Quote:
Originally Posted by svltrack View Post
Congratulations... LMT is a great pick! I was considering it as an option prior to putting together my .308 16" (just finished it this week)

I really like some of the features on the LMT in comparison to the competition. They have great engineering and they probably put more R&D into their products than any other company (at least from what I read).

The post about the specific barrell being the determining factor I believe is correct since your question relates to accurracy. Taking away anything else regarding the various .308 AR setups and ammo being used, if you are asking about the variance of accurracy from a 16" to a 18"/20" then it boils down to how true the barrell is and how fast the projectile is moving.

I am by no means an expert on ballistics or fluid dynamics. From everything that I understand of the .308 cartridge it will lose most effectiveness from 600 yards and greater; while the velocity and accurracy difference from 600 yards and closer when comparing the 16" vs 18"/20" is literally splitting hairs. I am by no means saying a .308 cannot shoot with great accurracy beyond 600 yards, just that it loses a good amount of energy beyond 600 yards.

This is why I believe the 16" is the way to go in a .308 AR style setup and you made a fantastic pick with the LMT. Cutting edge technology, superb craftsmanship, top-notch engineering, spot on accurracy... it really does not get much better IMO.
.
Can't say I totally agree with this. IF going to 600 you'll want at a minimum of the 18" barrel. Although the velocity difference is slight the more you can get the better when reaching out there. What sort of ranges did you want to shoot? the twist of your barrel will also be a determing factor in the weight of projectile you'll be able to effectively stablize. I've shot the 16 and 24" dpms's in 308 with the 24" being more accurate. Haven't shot them much past 100 an the 16" was using an acog vs a lr leupold on the 24" both are quite accurate with the edge going to the 24". If choosing only one length I believe i'd go with an 18" bbl with a 1 in 10 or 1 in 11.25 twist.
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Old July 27th, 2010, 06:46 AM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

I would recommend the KAC SR-25 EMC (Enhanced Match Carbine). It is a 16" .308 rifle based on the SR25/Mk11Mod0/M110 SASS. It has a bunch of new features such as a proprietary enhanced reliability bolt, full dimpled barrel, , URX rail with integrated fold up weapon sights. It's extremely light for a .308 and it comes stock with a SOPMOD stock, and QD sling mounts. You can use Magpul mags or any compatible SR25 magazine.

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Old July 27th, 2010, 08:38 AM
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Default Re: 308 AR with a 16 inch barrel

Well, I have a 24" AR10T, a 16" AR10 LW Carbine, and a 12.5" Noveske Leonidas.

The Noveske is just as accurate as the AR10T, but I wouldn't use it to shoot 600 yards. The AR10 carbine I have has a pencil barrel, and after a few shots it starts to string hits due to the barrel heating.

Withthe Noveske, my 17 year old son was easily able to hit a 12" steel plate at 300 yards, offhand.

I also have an M1A SOCOM 16. I've shot bowling pins with it at 200 yards with ball ammo and probably 90% hits once I dialed it in.

Armalite used to sell a 16" AR10T. Quality barrels are out there, but the velocity loss is what makes hits problematical at long ranges.
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