AR-15 questions/limitations ?? Could use some expert advice.

[PhilaShooter]

I have some questions for qualified/knowledgable AR members. I bought my first AR platform just a few weeks ago. To be exact it is a Stag Arms 20" barrel left handed AR-15. It was used and has approx. a few hundered rounds through it. It also has the factory Stag Arms trigger, not sure exactly what make and/or manufacturer, whatever they would use for there factory AR's as there was no trigger job done to the rifle. Also has the factory barrel as well.

My first question, I was thinking down the road of getting a trigger job, replacing the FCG and all. Can anyone recommend any manufacturer's and models to go with ? Also should I upgrade the trigger, or is Stag's factory trigger high quality ? Eventually after some more shooting experience with this rifle I would like to be able to get a 1 MOA at around 600 yards.

My second question, with the right type of ammo is my AR platform able to reach out to 1,000 yards, accuratly, with nice MOA's, consistently ? Would I need to upgrade the trigger ? upgrade the barrel ? I REALLY want to get into shooting efficently at 1,000 yards as I'm 26 now and feel I have the eargerness and willingness to learn the proper methods it would take to do so. I have had AK's for a few years now, for the most part I know there capabilities/limitations. Also I'm sure with the right type of ammo one could effectivly shoot them at 1,000 yards but the AR is much more accurate and known for being better in this catagory.

I appreciate everyone's time and knowledge helping me, and thank you in advance for any you are willing to offer.

[mongo]

Up here in the boondocks we have a hard time shooting 500 yards let alone 1000 yards. Where is there places to shoot 1000 yards in Philly? And 223 / 1000 yards? I guess. Have not seen any 223-AR's at the 1000 yard bench rest matches yet.

[PhilaShooter]

Up here in the boondocks we have a hard time shooting 500 yards let alone 1000 yards. Where is there places to shoot 1000 yards in Philly? And 223 / 1000 yards? I guess. Have not seen any 223-AR's at the 1000 yard bench rest matches yet.

I don't even take my firearms out unless they are COMPLETLY concealed in a luggage bag, guitar case or something like that. TOO MANY people around you in the city to just walk outside with firearms cases and the only people I trust knowing I even have them are ME, ME and ME !

There is no where close honestly, I would have to travel an hour at least that I know of but once I get set-up for it I would have no problem driving to a range that is set-up for 1,000 yards.

I'm not looking into doing LR matches as of right now...down the line after some serious EXTENSIVE pratice at it I would LOVE to though. I have seen in previous threads of people saying they have taken .223 to 1,000 yards efficently. I myself have never even tried it.

I just curious to know what kind of set-up I would need to be able to efficently do it myself. What kind of barrel, trigger, ect..ect...

[mongo]

Like everything else in this world you have to crawl first. It's a long way before you can fly. You started out good, stag is good stuff. You should not have to change the rifle too much. It's dam good just just the way it is. Spend you'r money on a good scope, Leupold is about the best. I know others will argue. Don't skimp on the mounts, low and solid. Good ammo is important. Try the 69gr. match types. A good shooting bench and some sand bags and you should be good to go. 100 yards at first then work up. You can try farther, like 300 yards but don't ghange any scope settings after you'r 100 yard adjustments, You'l just go nuts. Oh, and keep the barrel clean. And never-never clean it from the muzzle. You have to shoot the thing. Most AR's I have seen need to have about 500 rounds down the tube before they start to group good.

[ReconLdr]

I don't even take my firearms out unless they are COMPLETLY concealed in a luggage bag, guitar case or something like that. TOO MANY people around you in the city to just walk outside with firearms cases and the only people I trust knowing I even have them are ME, ME and ME !

There is no where close honestly, I would have to travel an hour at least that I know of but once I get set-up for it I would have no problem driving to a range that is set-up for 1,000 yards.

I'm not looking into doing LR matches as of right now...down the line after some serious EXTENSIVE pratice at it I would LOVE to though. I have seen in previous threads of people saying they have taken .223 to 1,000 yards efficently. I myself have never even tried it.

I just curious to know what kind of set-up I would need to be able to efficently do it myself. What kind of barrel, trigger, ect..ect...

I would not plan on taking an AR in 5.56 to 1000 yds EVER. That round is way too light to expect reliable hits at that range. By the time it gets to about 600yds it is about petered out. The slightest breeze at that range will blow that round all over the place. Example: a 10 mph breeze will blow that round 136 inches off target at 1000 yds.

I would say that most people would be happy to get Minute of Automobile at 1000yds with an AR platform in 5.56. The 5.56 Nato goes transonic (moves slower than the speed of sound) at @ 930 yds on a good day. When the bullet makes that transition it makes it really tough predict the flight path/point of impact.

If there are people that can shoot a 5.56/.223 at 1000yds and get reliable hits, stay on their good side. I however will not believe it until I see it.

[Steve_NEPhila]

I can give some data to back up this statement: The .223 will not effectively shoot 1000 yards!!!

If you use a 3200 fps load on a 55 grain bullet with a zero for 200 yards you will have approximately a 500 inch drop from point of impact at 200 yards!!! 500 inches is 41.6 feet!

The AR-15 is not a real "rifle" it is a carbine for all intents and purposes. If you want to shoot 1000 yards something in the .308 Winchester would serve you better. Well, unless you have targets the size of a three story building.

As for triggers, go visit John Robinson at Classic pistol. I am sure he can work the trigger you have for much less cash then buying some whiz bang unit and his work is absolutely outstanding.

The AR-15 is designed for combat distances of about 300 yards. It is not a distance precision rifle. Sure, you could sink a ton of money to make it one. Kind of like making a 1989 Honda CRX into a sub 6 second drag car. It is entirely possible, yet it is also a bit impractical, expensive and not what it was designed for.

[Connal]

The .223 can do 1000 yard shots. I've been doing some digging on that round for a while now, been contemplating building a long range rifle. Is it possible? Yes, of course it is. The same way it is possible to hit 1k yards with a .308, or even a .17 hmr. Is it easy? No.

Found a good article here: http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...223-mile-1.php

That being said, I don't know if the AR would be a suitable platform for that range. For something like that, I would prefer a nice bolt action, to a semi. Sink a little money into making a nice long range rifle. Start handloading some rounds, and you should be able to do 1k shots with practice.

[mythaeus]

I agree with everything said so far about walking before running and .223 as limitation to long range shots. I also haven't found a range that goes past 200 yards in the Philly burbs areas.

If you get to that point, even wanting to stick to the AR platform, you'd need at least the AR10 platform with very long and heavy barrel (most likely a custom barrel). Even then, the BCG movement of an auto loader would still impact your accuracy significantly compared to a bolt action rifle, generally built specifically for longer range purposes. Snipers don't use the AR platform for good reasons.

Have some fun with the AR15 that you have now, 200-yard shots and all. Get good at it. Practice your techniques with a good bolt action .22LR, get more trigger time in. When you get to the point where you want a long ranger, .308 Win, .338 Lapua, .300 Win Mag, .375 or .408 Cheytac are some to consider for a bolt action. You'd want to roll your own ammo at that time too I think.

Al

[TXDMERC73]

I would suggest you get a 20-24" barrel for 1000 yard shots, i only use mine up to 100 yards .

I took long shots when i had my Winchester Model 70 in .243 WSSM i was doing 1" groups at 200 yards with 95 gr ballastic silvertips. i shot some 55 gr ballastic silvertips but i preferred the 95 grainer.

if you do 1000 yard shots use a varminter stainless barreled AR15 you should be able to get nice groups at 500 yards.

[ReconLdr]

The .223 can do 1000 yard shots. I've been doing some digging on that round for a while now, been contemplating building a long range rifle. Is it possible? Yes, of course it is. The same way it is possible to hit 1k yards with a .308, or even a .17 hmr. Is it easy? No.

Found a good article here: http://www.longrangehunting.com/arti...223-mile-1.php

That being said, I don't know if the AR would be a suitable platform for that range. For something like that, I would prefer a nice bolt action, to a semi. Sink a little money into making a nice long range rifle. Start handloading some rounds, and you should be able to do 1k shots with practice.

I am still very skeptical. In light of your "internet evidence" I will say it is "possible" but I will still believe it when I see it first hand.

He makes a statement: "...the .223 is not only capable but lethal at shots to a mile" according to my ballistics calculator, the 75 gr Amax bullets only have 207 ftlb of energy at 1000yds... the average loss of energy beyond the transonic barrier is 3 ftlbs per 10 yds at that rate, there would be -3 ftlbs of energy remaining at impact. (I know having negative energy isnt possible) I don't suspect that impact would be lethal.

The author of this article is obviously a very experienced and well trained shooter. He is definately 1 in a million. I am not sure you realize the skill and practice it takes to hit targets at that range. Not to mention years of dedication and homework.

I have been shooting for a long, long time. I have shot AR platforms (5.56) out to 600m and hit man sized targets. I would not consider the platform nor the cartridge viable beyond that range.

FWIW, I shared this article with a Sniper buddy of mine. (very old school Vietnam era guy) He has forgot more about ballistics than I will ever know. He thought it was a joke at first. He crunched the numbers and said, they match his ballistics program (elevation) but he stated the same thing I did. "How in the hell do you call wind for a bullet moving that slow that far out?"

To the OP, do yourself a favor, get yourself a good bolt gun in a better caliber for 1000 yd shooting. After you can get reliable hits at 1000 with a good bolt gun in .308 or better, then try to get there with your AR.

My .02