Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
public property/private lease
does the state constitution and the pa laws allow you to carry in said property like in this case (email is attached)?
Within the city limits, the park grounds are publicly owned by the City of Pittsburgh. The Parks Conservancy has long-term lease or license agreements for three locations: Schenley Plaza, Schenley Café and Visitor Center, and Mellon Square. In these locations, we are responsible for site management and supplemental maintenance.
Best regards,
Susan Susan Rademacher
Parks CuratorPittsburgh Parks Conservancy
Re: public property/private lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by
allen16323
does the state constitution and the pa laws allow you to carry in said property like in this case (email is attached)?
Within the city limits, the park grounds are publicly owned by the City of Pittsburgh. The Parks Conservancy has long-term lease or license agreements for three locations: Schenley Plaza, Schenley Café and Visitor Center, and Mellon Square. In these locations, we are responsible for site management and supplemental maintenance.
Best regards,
Susan Susan Rademacher
Parks CuratorPittsburgh Parks Conservancy
When a municipality leases out a piece of property, the lessee can determine if people can carry so long as the lessee isn't another municipality. A property owner does give up some rights when they lease/rent out property. So, if Pittsburgh leases property to Schenley Café - Schenley Café then has the authority to bar carrying via trespass laws. Pittsburgh itself could never do it.
With Pittsburgh being a municipality, and when the property is solely in their control - they cannot make any law that exceeds the laws of the Commonwealth(see Minich v Jefferson Co II). A park or other municipal property is lawful to carry in unless there is a court facility, a school(lawful purpose is still undefined), or another prohibited place - made prohibited by state or federal law.
Re: public property/private lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by
knight0334
When a municipality leases out a piece of property, the lessee can determine if people can carry so long as the lessee isn't another municipality. A property owner does give up some rights when they lease/rent out property. So, if Pittsburgh leases property to Schenley Café - Schenley Café then has the authority to bar carrying via trespass laws. Pittsburgh itself could never do it.
What then is stopping Pittsburgh from leasing all public areas to Ceasefire for $1/99yr and allowing them to ban firearms?
Re: public property/private lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kadar
What then is stopping Pittsburgh from leasing all public areas to Ceasefire for $1/99yr and allowing them to ban firearms?
Nothing really.
Re: public property/private lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kadar
What then is stopping Pittsburgh from leasing all public areas to Ceasefire for $1/99yr and allowing them to ban firearms?
One would have to look at the details of the lease and the reasons for its creation.
If it can be shown that the city's sole purpose and Ceasefire's sole privilege under the 'lease' was to ban firearms under the trespass statute then, IMO, Ceasefire would be acting as an agent of the city and inherit the city's 6120 preemption limitation.
Re: public property/private lease
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tl_3237
One would have to look at the details of the lease and the reasons for its creation.
If it can be shown that the city's sole purpose and Ceasefire's sole privilege under the 'lease' was to ban firearms under the trespass statute then, IMO, Ceasefire would be acting as an agent of the city and inherit the city's 6120 preemption limitation.
Great point!
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
I haven't read all the responses but would like to point out that I often see and hear of the License To Carry Firearms incorrectly being referred to as a 'gun permit' or simply as above, a license to carry firearms. Per section 6109 of PA Title 18:
§ 6109. Licenses.
(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.
I've gotten myself into the habit of referring to the document as a concealed carry license so that in conversation with those who don't know, it's become easier to explain that no permit is necessary to own a gun or open carry outside of a vehicle in the Commonwealth.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GFCLA
I haven't read all the responses but would like to point out that I often see and hear of the License To Carry Firearms incorrectly being referred to as a 'gun permit' or simply as above, a license to carry firearms. Per section 6109 of PA Title 18:
[I]§ 6109. Licenses.
(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.[/I]
I've gotten myself into the habit of referring to the document as a concealed carry license so that in conversation with those who don't know, it's become easier to explain that no permit is necessary to own a gun or open carry outside of a vehicle in the Commonwealth.
It is not incorrect to call it a gun permit. It is related to the carrying of certain types of guns, and Pennsylvania law calls it a "permit".
Quote:
18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses
(i) Revocation.--A license to carry firearms may be revoked by the issuing authority for good cause. A
license to carry firearms shall be revoked by the issuing authority for any reason stated in subsection (e)(1) which occurs during the term of the
permit.
In addition, it is for purposes beyond carrying concealed. For instance, to carry either openly or concealed during a declared state of emergency, or in Philadelphia, one must possess a license to carry firearms (or meet another exception). Re: Philly open carry requiring a license see 18 Pa.C.S. § 6108: Carrying firearms on public streets or public property in Philadelphia and Commonwealth v. Hawkins ("...only in Philadelphia must a person obtain a license for carrying a firearm whether it is unconcealed or concealed..."). Re: carrying during an emergency see 18 Pa.C.S. § 6107: Prohibited conduct during emergency.
So calling it a "concealed carry license" is arguably misleading, as it could imply a concealment requirement which the law does not contain, while failing to acknowledge that it allows certain types of otherwise prohibited unconcealed carry. (Some other states actually do have laws where carrying openly, or merely "printing" or otherwise revealing your concealed firearm, is a crime despite holding a "concealed carry" permit. In those states "concealed means concealed", as folks like to say. PA is different in that there are few or no places where concealed carry is permitted but open carry prohibited. The most notable exception is concealed carry in state parks; there's some controversy about whether open carry with a LTCF is permitted, or only concealed carry with a LTCF, due to differing interpretations of statutes.)
I actually don't have a big problem with calling the PA LTCF a CCP or CCW or whatever in casual conversation. We all know what is meant, more or less. But the phrase "license to carry firearms" is actually found within the PA statutes, as well as on the application form and the license document itself, so it's accurate and precise to call it that. Meanwhile the phrase "concealed carry license" or "concealed carry permit" is not found anywhere in any statute or relevant official document that I'm aware of.
Re: READ FIRST: Where you CAN and CANNOT Carry weapons in the State of Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GFCLA
I haven't read all the responses but would like to point out that I often see and hear of the License To Carry Firearms incorrectly being referred to as a 'gun permit' or simply as above, a license to carry firearms. Per section 6109 of PA Title 18:
§ 6109. Licenses.
(a) Purpose of license.--A license to carry a firearm shall be for the purpose of carrying a firearm concealed on or about one's person or in a vehicle throughout this Commonwealth.
I've gotten myself into the habit of referring to the document as a concealed carry license so that in conversation with those who don't know, it's become easier to explain that no permit is necessary to own a gun or open carry outside of a vehicle in the Commonwealth.
Nowhere in Pennsylvania law does it give it a Proper Name(capitalized words). It is simply referred to as a "license" and also a "permit." The only resemblance of authority that gives it a name is a regulation by the PA State Police.
License and permit are by definition, legally, and in all practical senses the same thing. To make big deal out of the name of the permit is beyond asinine.