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I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
I got arrested in NJ for drug possession and it got ruled down to a disorderly persons offense. I received PTI in NJ. I got my record expunged and I now live in PA with a PA license of course. I want to know for sure 100% that I can buy a shotgun in PA for hunting? My lawyer is a NJ lawyer and he said he was not sure in a other state. Does PA have any laws that would forbid me to buy firearms for my situation? I live in Mount Bethel PA. Im not looking for any guess work. Thanks for the help in advance.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
You can request a background check from the state police and see if it shows up. Other than that I don't anything else.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
This is what you want.
https://epatch.state.pa.us/Home.jsp
Before you do that how long has the expungement been in effect?
Good luck
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Here's a hypothetical.
If he goes and passes the PICS background check, they screw up, and he buys a shotgun, could he ever be charged with anything?
First off, PICS does screw up. I purchased a shotgun, with an M1, incorrectly listed on my record. The M1 was incorrectly listed on my record, and the situation has been remedied, and the offense is now correctly downgraded in my record. However, it did slip past them once.
Secondly, the OP clearly is not sure if he is prohibited or not, which also means he does not know he is prohibited. What would 12 of his peers think expunged meant? I would assume they would take it as it meant the same as he had never been arrested or convicted for said crime.
Does anyone know if anything bad could happen, assuming what I just outlined, if he just goes and gives it a try?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
I got arrested in NJ for drug possession and it got ruled down to a disorderly persons offense. I received PTI in NJ. I got my record expunged and I now live in PA with a PA license of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
WanderingFool
PA's check is not going to tell him about NJ's records.
A "disorderly persons offense" doesn't sound analogous to any of the prohibited crimes listed in 18 Pa.C.S. 6105 and if it didn't carry a max potential jail time of more than 2 years, it's a question whether there was any real worry of prohibition at all. You might consider seeing if you can get an NJ version of a background check printout.
The only remaining concern is what information might be availed to a PICS examiner (well that's what they call the NICS call-takers; they call the PICS people something else) regarding the nature of this 'drug possession'. Check out 18 U.S.C. 922(g)(3) and then 27 CFR 478.11, but then review UNITED STATES v. AUGUSTIN, 376 F.3d 135 (3rd.Cir. 2004).
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
"Before you do that how long has the expungement been in effect?"
Just recently. Arrest took place about 4 years ago. I had to hire a lawyer at a cost of $1250 to get it expunged. Let me make this clear as that I was charged with a felony, but my lawyer got it ruled down to a PTI on a disorderly persons offense. In the end I received a disorderly persons offense as that was the only thing that was on my record. One dumb mistake & you get hung for it. Hard lesson learned. Thanks for all the time spent in everyones responses. I plan on buying a shotgun but also want a handgun. Would I be better off buying them both at the same time or separate as far as the pics check goes? What I mean is will they give it a longer research time because Im buying a handgun with the shotgun?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
Would I be better off buying them both at the same time or separate as far as the pics check goes? What I mean is will they give it a longer research time because Im buying a handgun with the shotgun?
Makes no difference, the time it takes to do the background check doesn't depend on what you are buying. The PICS is checking you, not what guns you are buying. When the PICS unit is called they do their thing and if you are approved the approval number can be used for multiple gun sales at one time be it long arms or handguns or a mixture. If a handgun is involved then some extra paperwork is required. The buyer has to fill out both the PA form (SP4-113) along with the BATFE Form 4473 when buying a handgun. If multiple handguns are being bought at the same time, then a separate SP4-113 must be done for each handgun and the FFL will fill out another form for reporting multiple handgun sales to the BATFE and the local law enforcement agency.
The only thing would be that if you buy them at separate times you will undergo (and be charged for) the background check each time.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
"Before you do that how long has the expungement been in effect?"
Just recently. Arrest took place about 4 years ago. I had to hire a lawyer at a cost of $1250 to get it expunged. Let me make this clear as that I was charged with a felony, but my lawyer got it ruled down to a PTI on a disorderly persons offense. In the end I received a disorderly persons offense as that was the only thing that was on my record. One dumb mistake & you get hung for it. Hard lesson learned. Thanks for all the time spent in everyones responses. I plan on buying a shotgun but also want a handgun. Would I be better off buying them both at the same time or separate as far as the pics check goes? What I mean is will they give it a longer research time because Im buying a handgun with the shotgun?
It really doesn't matter what you are charged with. It only matters what you are convicted of. A disorderly persons charge is not a felony and only punishable by a maximum of 6 months in jail if I understand correctly. Therefore, this should not prohibit you from buying a firearm regardless of whether or not it was expunged or the date of expungement.
I am not a lawyer though.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Just an FYI if anyone is interested. A person can request a Criminal Records Check on themselves via the NJ State Police Investigation Bureau by submitting a finger print card to them with a letter outlining the purpose of the request and attesting to the fact that your requesting the information on yourself for your own purposes.
I did it myself years ago. Got a strange look and some temporary confusion from the Officer that did my prints, but they took them and handed me the card back and I mailed it in. Got a reply back in a couple weeks.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
It really doesn't matter what you are charged with. It only matters what you are convicted of. A disorderly persons charge is not a felony and only punishable by a maximum of 6 months in jail if I understand correctly. Therefore, this should not prohibit you from buying a firearm regardless of whether or not it was expunged or the date of expungement.
I am not a lawyer though.
I got a hold of my lawyer from NJ through Email and asked him excactly what is a disorderly persons offense is in NJ and how it all works.
"What is a Disorderly Persons offense?
A Disorderly Persons Offense is a category of offense that can be related to a small amount of drugs, a simple assault, a petty theft, etc. Disorderly Persons offenses are handled in the municipal court of the municipality where the offense occurred.
Unlike a crime that is handled in a County Court, with a Disorderly Persons offense the defendant accused is not entitled to an indictment by a Grand Jury or a trial by jury. Any trial that takes place is heard in front of and decided by a municipal court Judge. A Disorderly Persons charge is considered an “Offense”, and not a “Crime”, such as an indictable offense that is handled in a County Court is considered.
An advantage of the crime/offense distinction is that certain collateral consequences are not available upon the conviction of a Disorderly Persons offense. For example, one does not lose the right to vote, nor is one automatically disqualified from serving on a jury.
Although Disorderly Persons charges are handled in the municipal court and are considered offenses instead of New Jersey Criminal Charges, a person convicted of one of these charges is subject to a variety of punishments, including incarceration and fines. In fact, a municipal Judge has in his or her discretion to fine a defendant up to $1,000.00 and incarcerate him or her for up to six (6) months in jail if they plead guilty or are found guilty of a Disorderly Persons offense. Certain Disorderly Persons offenses also carry with them the mandatory loss of driving privileges, even if the offense had nothing to do with operating a motor vehicle. There are additional statutory fines and penalties that can make a finding of guilt very costly to the defendant."
That is what he sent me. So it sounds like Im good to go. He also said in his 19 years as a lawyer he has never heard of anyone being denied of firearms when receiving a PTI. He also said this is in NJ and I dont know about other states.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
It really doesn't matter what you are charged with. It only matters what you are convicted of. A disorderly persons charge is not a felony and only punishable by a maximum of 6 months in jail if I understand correctly. Therefore, this should not prohibit you from buying a firearm regardless of whether or not it was expunged or the date of expungement.
I am not a lawyer though.
It actually would appear to matter if he was under information or indictment for a state crime with a max penalty beyond 2 years jail while the PTI was in effect until it was satisfied (although I assume with the proper expungement procedures this does not need to be considered.) 18 USC 922(n):
(n) It shall be unlawful for any person who is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition or receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce. Your use of the word 'charged' was too ambiguous for me not to note this.
P.S. I look forward to 922(n) getting struck down some day on 2A + due-process + not-really-ICC-related grounds. It's a pretty pathetic attempt to reduce firearm access to people who are presumed innocent.
I'm sure the OP has paperwork from his whole court experience or can get it from his lawyer, where the actual statute implicated is cited and he can read the law and see if the penalty meets what he read about 'disorderly persons' statutes.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
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Originally Posted by
MDJschool
It actually would appear to matter if he was under information or indictment for a state crime with a max penalty beyond 2 years jail while the PTI was in effect until it was satisfied (although I assume with the proper expungement procedures this does not need to be considered.) 18 USC 922(n):
(n) It shall be unlawful for any person who is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship or transport in interstate or foreign commerce any firearm or ammunition or receive any firearm or ammunition which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce. Your use of the word 'charged' was too ambiguous for me not to note this.
P.S. I look forward to 922(n) getting struck down some day on 2A + due-process + not-really-ICC-related grounds. It's a pretty pathetic attempt to reduce firearm access to people who are presumed innocent.
I'm sure the OP has paperwork from his whole court experience or can get it from his lawyer, where the actual statute implicated is cited and he can read the law and see if the penalty meets what he read about 'disorderly persons' statutes.
That only applies between the time of indictment until the court's disposition though. In this case, he has already been sentenced, so 922(n) shouldn't apply to him. Am I missing something?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
That only applies between the time of indictment until the court's disposition though. In this case, he has already been sentenced, so 922(n) shouldn't apply to him. Am I missing something?
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/crpti.htm
If a defendant successfully completes all the conditions of PTI, then the original charges are dismissed and there is no record of conviction. If a defendant does not successfully complete the conditions of PTI, then the defendant is terminated from the PTI program and the case is returned to the trial list.
(In consideration of all the possibilities since the OP did not provide the most technical explanation of his scenario) What if the court fails to transmit the data on the dismissal or the central depository in NJ fails to correctly update their records? What if an expungment in NJ only hides a subset of the records generated from the time of a detainment?
I have seen ARD/DILOT/expungment failures from PA cause PA instant checks to become less instant or worse yet denied. I don't see any reason why NJ would not be subject to the same possibility, to cause an adverse affect to customers in PA trying to purchase firearms.
Of course, all the things above are probably not pertinent to OP if what he said was correct. But it didn't seem correct to me to say that 'it doesn't matter what you're charged with' as a general statement, so I tried to clarify.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MDJschool
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/criminal/crpti.htm
If a defendant successfully completes all the conditions of PTI, then the original charges are dismissed and there is no record of conviction. If a defendant does not successfully complete the conditions of PTI, then the defendant is terminated from the PTI program and the case is returned to the trial list.
(In consideration of all the possibilities since the OP did not provide the most technical explanation of his scenario) What if the court fails to transmit the data on the dismissal or the central depository in NJ fails to correctly update their records? What if an expungment in NJ only hides a subset of the records generated from the time of a detainment?
I have seen ARD/DILOT/expungment failures from PA cause PA instant checks to become less instant or worse yet denied. I don't see any reason why NJ would not be subject to the same possibility, to cause an adverse affect to customers in PA trying to purchase firearms.
Of course, all the things above are probably not pertinent to OP if what he said was correct. But it didn't seem correct to me to say that 'it doesn't matter what you're charged with' as a general statement, so I tried to clarify.
This is how a expunged record works in NJ. The site to view this information is- http://www.njexpungements.com/faq.php
Q13. My convictions were expunged. Now I want to apply for a gun permit. Should I divulge those expunged matters on my firearms application?
A. No. In fact, questions on the official New Jersey Firearms Identification Card Application Form relating to past criminal convictions or arrests specifically exclude records that have been expunged or sealed. Your New Jersey expungement will also remove any federal firearms disability that arose on account of the New Jersey conviction. This follows from Title 18, Section 921(a)(20) of the United States Code. That provision states: "Any conviction which has been expunged...shall not be considered a conviction for purposes of this chapter, unless such...expungement...expressly provides that the person may not ship, transport, possess, or receive firearms." Note that if you previously had a gun permit that was revoked, you would have to divulge that fact, even if the reason for the revocation was conviction for an offense that was later expunged.
As far as PA goes I dont know. I did receive the PTI and I completed it without incident. I will just have to call the PA State Police to get to the bottom of this?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
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Originally Posted by
revelation9985
As far as PA goes I dont know. I did receive the PTI and I completed it without incident. I will just have to call the PA State Police to get to the bottom of this?
snip....................
NO !
NEVER trust the police to give accurate information or opinion about law !!
You can either run a backround check on yourself thru the NJSP like I explained earlier, or you can just go make a purchase and see what happens.
Based on everything you've already discovered yourself, I seriously doubt you have anything to worry about.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
[B]. Im not looking for any guess work. B]
then you really ought to be asking this question to an attorney in PA familier with PA state gun laws instead of a discussion board.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Sounds to me like you would have been good to go without the expungement.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Just go to a FFL and buy a pistol. You'll find out within 15 mins. I would recommend that you buy your shotgun used, face to face, after you buy your pistol. You don't need to buy a shotty thru an FFL. You can do it between the owner and yourself.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
We sometimes get a customer in the shop that wants to buy a gun, but is concerned about prior "baggage".
Instead of going through all the paperwork, only to get denied... (creating MORE paperwork) we suggest they take a ride in to the County courthouse to obtain a concealed carry permit. The permit process involves the same background check... but without the risk of possibly breaking another law by attempting to purchase a gun by a prohibited person. Obviously the permit process in some counties is a bit more difficult... but here in Berks it's pretty streamlined.
Just food for thought. :)
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragracer_Art
We sometimes get a customer in the shop that wants to buy a gun, but is concerned about prior "baggage".
Instead of going through all the paperwork, only to get denied... (creating MORE paperwork) we suggest they take a ride in to the County courthouse to obtain a concealed carry licence. The licence process involves the same background check... but without the risk of possibly breaking another law by attempting to purchase a gun by a prohibited person. Obviously the licence process in some counties is a bit more difficult... but here in Berks it's pretty streamlined.
Just food for thought. :)
Fixed it for ya, before the licence police get at ya!
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wellcraft
then you really ought to be asking this question to an attorney in PA familier with PA state gun laws instead of a discussion board.
Right. That would most likely cost me more money that I could careless to spend on one more lawyer. Thought there might be a good chance of someone on this board who would know. Worth a shot that an attorney who visits this board might give the concrete correct answer, or someone who was in the same situation in the pass.
Also the PICS fee is $10 no matter how many guns I plan to buy at one time correct.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
thundrr1
Just go to a FFL and buy a pistol. You'll find out within 15 mins. I would recommend that you buy your shotgun used, face to face, after you buy your pistol. You don't need to buy a shotty thru an FFL. You can do it between the owner and yourself.
This sounds like a good idea. Hopefully it goes through.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragracer_Art
Instead of going through all the paperwork, only to get denied... (creating MORE paperwork) we suggest they take a ride in to the County courthouse to obtain a concealed carry permit. The permit process involves the same background check... but without the risk of possibly breaking another law by attempting to purchase a gun by a prohibited person. Obviously the permit process in some counties is a bit more difficult... but here in Berks it's pretty streamlined.
Gun purchasers should really make an attempt to know their criminal history 'to the best of their information, knowledge, and belief' because prosecutors and courts are less forgiving than legislators regarding the term 'knowing(ly)'. If a person applies for an LTCF, he's going to be just as liable for false swearing as he will be for trying to acquire a firearm. We've gone through some hypotheticals here just for the sake of those who come on to read the thread later who are not the OP, and based on the information he's given us, we can't see a reason to believe he was prohibited without the expungment, or why an expungment wouldn't be effective. On the other hand, he didn't cite the actual section of statute his charge was based on, or hints of any other potential criminal history, etc. If a person pursues a LTCF, gets denied, and fails to get that overturned, he is presumably banned for a year from reapplication. There exists no such ban when buying arms.
However,
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
Thought there might be a good chance of someone on this board who would know. Worth a shot that an attorney who visits this board might give the concrete correct answer, or someone who was in the same situation in the pass.
Not even an attorney can give you a 'concrete' answer (here), for one you aren't even going to have an attorney-client privileged relationship so it will not be 'legal advice' for the probable poster, and also how a police officer, DA, judge, or jury sees any of it will ultimately be different than you, I, or that lawyer-poster. You are giving us limited information, and we are giving you limited responses; we're each hinting to each other to hopefully converge upon a useful and factual conclusion. But none of can be sure we're "correct" so far as avoiding adverse consequences, whether or not those consequences should exist. Exercising your rights is dangerous by (government's) design.
Quote:
Also the PICS fee is $10 no matter how many guns I plan to buy at one time correct.
I think it's going be $2 (non-refundable?) for a single check which can cover multiple firearms from a sale, but there's going to be the $3 excise on each firearm sold. The fee designations are in statute somewhere, but for expedience now, I refreshed my memory using some PA gubmint reports, on PICS fees, 2000 and 2006. Where did you come up with $10? Was it the price for an EPATCH PA background check? The PICS system is different as far as charges, and is set out by statute or regulation.
EDIT:
18 PA.C.S. 6111(b)(3)
(3) Requested by means of a telephone call that the Pennsylvania State Police conduct a criminal history, juvenile delinquency history and a mental health record check. The purchaser and the licensed dealer shall provide such information as is necessary to accurately identify the purchaser. The requester shall be charged a fee equivalent to the cost of providing the service but not to exceed $2 per buyer or transferee.
18 Pa.C.S. 6111.2(a)
(a) Surcharge imposed.--There is hereby imposed on each sale of a firearm subject to tax under Article II of the act of March 4, 1971 (P.L. 6, No. 2), known as the Tax Reform Code of 1971, [FN1] an additional surcharge of $3. This shall be referred to as the Firearm Sale Surcharge. All moneys received from this surcharge shall be deposited in the Firearm Instant Records Check Fund.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
Right. That would most likely cost me more money that I could careless to spend on one more lawyer. Thought there might be a good chance of someone on this board who would know. Worth a shot that an attorney who visits this board might give the concrete correct answer, or someone who was in the same situation in the pass
Look you made a mistake. You should be damn happy you got PTI, or you may very well have been prohibited for life. If it costs you more money to make yourself comfortable then that’s your deal. Everyone here is trying to guide you. You’re seeking free advice from non attorneys, and IMO you’ve received some good information.
Based on the information you provided you were convicted of nothing that would be a prohibited offense. An arrest record alone (if you still had one) will not prevent you from buying a gun in Pa. This isn't NJ....not yet any way. If there is some glitch on your record it’s likely going to be there tomorrow and ten years from now, so you might as well jump in head first and solve any issues.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MDJschool
Gun purchasers should really make an attempt to know their criminal history 'to the best of their information, knowledge, and belief' because prosecutors and courts are less forgiving than legislators regarding the term 'knowing(ly)'. If a person applies for an LTCF, he's going to be just as liable for false swearing as he will be for trying to acquire a firearm. We've gone through some hypotheticals here just for the sake of those who come on to read the thread later who are not the OP, and based on the information he's given us, we can't see a reason to believe he was prohibited without the expungment, or why an expungment wouldn't be effective. On the other hand, he didn't cite the actual section of statute his charge was based on, or hints of any other potential criminal history, etc. If a person pursues a LTCF, gets denied, and fails to get that overturned, he is presumably banned for a year from reapplication. There exists no such ban when buying arms.
However,
Not even an attorney can give you a 'concrete' answer (here), for one you aren't even going to have an attorney-client privileged relationship so it will not be 'legal advice' for the probable poster, and also how a police officer, DA, judge, or jury sees any of it will ultimately be different than you, I, or that lawyer-poster. You are giving us limited information, and we are giving you limited responses; we're each hinting to each other to hopefully converge upon a useful and factual conclusion. But none of can be sure we're "correct" so far as avoiding adverse consequences, whether or not those consequences should exist. Exercising your rights is dangerous by (government's) design.
I think it's going be $2 (non-refundable?) for a single check which can cover multiple firearms from a sale, but there's going to be the $3 excise on each firearm sold. The fee designations are in statute somewhere, but for expedience now, I refreshed my memory using some PA gubmint reports, on PICS fees,
2000 and
2006. Where did you come up with $10? Was it the price for an EPATCH PA background check? The PICS system is different as far as charges, and is set out by statute or regulation.
EDIT:
18 PA.C.S. 6111(b)(3)
(3) Requested by means of a telephone call that the Pennsylvania State Police conduct a criminal history, juvenile delinquency history and a mental health record check. The purchaser and the licensed dealer shall provide such information as is necessary to accurately identify the purchaser. The requester shall be charged a fee equivalent to the cost of providing the service but not to exceed $2 per buyer or transferee.
18 Pa.C.S. 6111.2(a)
(a) Surcharge imposed.--There is hereby imposed on each sale of a firearm subject to tax under Article II of the act of March 4, 1971 (P.L. 6, No. 2), known as the Tax Reform Code of 1971, [FN1] an additional surcharge of $3. This shall be referred to as the Firearm Sale Surcharge. All moneys received from this surcharge shall be deposited in the Firearm Instant Records Check Fund.
I will go down to my firearms dealer and try and purchase some firearms. I will see what happens. My dealer had a $10 fee for some check/application fee but for exactly what Im not sure and will find out soon.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MDJschool
I think it's going be $2 (non-refundable?) for a single check which can cover multiple firearms from a sale, but there's going to be the $3 excise on each firearm sold. The fee designations are in statute somewhere, but for expedience now, I refreshed my memory using some PA gubmint reports, on PICS fees,
2000 and
2006. Where did you come up with $10? Was it the price for an EPATCH PA background check? The PICS system is different as far as charges, and is set out by statute or regulation.
EDIT:
18 PA.C.S. 6111(b)(3)
(3) Requested by means of a telephone call that the Pennsylvania State Police conduct a criminal history, juvenile delinquency history and a mental health record check. The purchaser and the licensed dealer shall provide such information as is necessary to accurately identify the purchaser. The requester shall be charged a fee equivalent to the cost of providing the service but not to exceed $2 per buyer or transferee.
18 Pa.C.S. 6111.2(a)
(a) Surcharge imposed.--There is hereby imposed on each sale of a firearm subject to tax under Article II of the act of March 4, 1971 (P.L. 6, No. 2), known as the Tax Reform Code of 1971, [FN1] an additional surcharge of $3. This shall be referred to as the Firearm Sale Surcharge. All moneys received from this surcharge shall be deposited in the Firearm Instant Records Check Fund.
The $3 only comes into play if the sale of the gun is subject to PA Sales Tax. A gun (actually anything) bought from out of state is PA Sales Tax exempt so you don't pay the $3 surcharge (unless the place selling it has a place of business in PA, then even if bought from the out of state store it is subject to PA sales tax or if the out of state business collects PA sales tax, then the $3 fee would be owed). That is not to say the person buying the gun doesn't owe the state a tax, you do, it's called the PA Use Tax and is the same amount as the sales tax rate where you live. It is NOT just a tax on businesses, it is on anyone who buys something from out of state and no PA sales tax is collected. That said, most people do no pay it and I don't know how hard the state would go after an individual. An FFL is under NO obligation (and legally cannot) collect the Use Tax from someone. Owing the Use Tax does not force the payment of the $3 surcharge.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
Right. That would most likely cost me more money that I could careless to spend on one more lawyer. Thought there might be a good chance of someone on this board who would know. Worth a shot that an attorney who visits this board might give the concrete correct answer, or someone who was in the same situation in the pass.
Also the PICS fee is $10 no matter how many guns I plan to buy at one time correct.
i understand you want to save money by not having to turn to an attorney for help but you also want to stay out of trouble. for legal issues i wouldn't take the advice of anyone on any gun discussion board regardless of who they said they were or how much sense the information they provided made unless i could sit down in their office and confirm they were an attorney. there's a lot of good info provided in this thread but i'd bet you could speak with a attorney who is familiar with PA gun law that could advise you and not charge a fee. at times a simple consultation is free and you're not looking at paying money unless the lawyer has to represent you. good luck and hopefully things will work out for you.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
God's Country
Look you made a mistake. You should be damn happy you got PTI, or you may very well have been prohibited for life. If it costs you more money to make yourself comfortable then that’s your deal. Everyone here is trying to guide you. You’re seeking free advice from non attorneys, and IMO you’ve received some good information.
Based on the information you provided you were convicted of nothing that would be a prohibited offense. An arrest record alone (if you still had one) will not prevent you from buying a gun in Pa. This isn't NJ....not yet any way. If there is some glitch on your record it’s likely going to be there tomorrow and ten years from now, so you might as well jump in head first and solve any issues.
Damn happy? It was bought and paid for. I spent $10,000 on the lawyer who had the connections to make sure of it. It was $200 worth of drugs that I should not have bought on New Years Eve of that year. $200 mistake turns into $10,000 plus the $1,250 to get it expunged. Sorry about not feeling to great about spending more of my life savings on lawyers. I have paid for my horrible mistake 100 times over. I will see if I can get the info from a lawyer here in PA with a free consultation.
Does the application they make you fill out for buying a pistol ask if you have ever been arrested?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wellcraft
i understand you want to save money by not having to turn to an attorney for help but you also want to stay out of trouble. for legal issues i wouldn't take the advice of anyone on any gun discussion board regardless of who they said they were or how much sense the information they provided made unless i could sit down in their office and confirm they were an attorney. there's a lot of good info provided in this thread but i'd bet you could speak with a attorney who is familiar with PA gun law that could advise you and not charge a fee. at times a simple consultation is free and you're not looking at paying money unless the lawyer has to represent you. good luck and hopefully things will work out for you.
I will see if I can get the free consultation from a lawyer here in PA. Then I will post here what he or she tells me. Everyone who spent the time giving me great info here thanks so much.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
I will be going down to my local gun show tomorrow and will see if I get denied. Should I buy a used gun instead? I heard PA law that you dont need a backround check if buying from someones personal collection, is that correct?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
I will be going down to my local gun show tomorrow and will see if I get denied. Should I buy a used gun instead? I heard PA law that you dont need a backround check if buying from someones personal collection, is that correct?
Incorrect. In PA all handgun sales/ transfers must go through an FFL unless the handgun is being gifted to a direct relative, I.E. Father to son. Sales/ transfers of rifles do not need to go through an FFL as long as recipient is not prohibited from owning the weapon.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
I will be going down to my local gun show tomorrow and will see if I get denied. Should I buy a used gun instead? I heard PA law that you dont need a backround check if buying from someones personal collection, is that correct?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PHLJJS
Incorrect. In PA all handgun sales/ transfers must go through an FFL unless the handgun is being gifted to a direct relative, I.E. Father to son. Sales/ transfers of rifles do not need to go through an FFL as long as recipient is not prohibited from owning the weapon.
Revelation9985, keep in mind that anything bought from a gunshop, used or new, must go through a PICS background check. However, muzzleloaders are an exception to this.
My thought is that you wouldn't be a prohibited person whether or not your records had been expunged. If I were you, I'd go and buy something that requires a background check. If you can buy it, great. If not, you can look into it further and find out if you truly are prohibited, or if it is something that a lawyer can clear up for you. What if you buy a few rifles/shotguns from private sales and then find out you're prohibited? Now, you're a prohibited person in possession of guns.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
Revelation9985, keep in mind that anything bought from a gunshop, used or new, must go through a PICS background check. However, muzzleloaders are an exception to this.
My thought is that you wouldn't be a prohibited person whether or not your records had been expunged. If I were you, I'd go and buy something that requires a background check. If you can buy it, great. If not, you can look into it further and find out if you truly are prohibited, or if it is something that a lawyer can clear up for you. What if you buy a few rifles/shotguns from private sales and then find out you're prohibited? Now, you're a prohibited person in possession of guns.
This thread will now has come to a conclusion. I went down to the gun show, saw a Glock 23 40. used in good shape for $350 My back round check took 2 minutes and went right through. So Im now a proud owner of a Glock 23. So Im thrilled! Thanks everyone for the info.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
This thread will now has come to a conclusion. I went down to the gun show, saw a Glock 23 40. used in good shape for $350 My back round check took 2 minutes and went right through. So Im now a proud owner of a Glock 23. So Im thrilled! Thanks everyone for the info.
Congratulations on your purchase! Now you've gotta take it out to the range to get proficient with it! Remember safety at all times.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
Congratulations on your purchase! Now you've gotta take it out to the range to get proficient with it! Remember safety at all times.
Thanks! How difficult is it to get a carry permit? How much does it cost? Does the gun have to be concealed or out in the open? Or can you have it both ways?
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
Thanks! How difficult is it to get a carry permit? How much does it cost? Does the gun have to be concealed or out in the open? Or can you have it both ways?
Here's a link to the Delaware County "Gun Permit Application." According to the website, it is $46, which means they're way overcharging you for your License to Carry Firearms. It's easy. Fill out the application with two references, give them some cash, and wait.
With a license to carry firearms, the gun can be carried openly or concealed. Without a LTCF, the gun can only be openly carried and only on foot (but to open carry in Philly requires a LTCF) and can only be stored in the car unloaded in the trunk to and from the range, gunshop, or gunsmith.
I guess if having it both ways is your thing, you can have it both ways. :D :D :D Seriously though, you can do a half-assed conceal carry if you like. There is no law that says you have to carry concealed or have to carry openly.
Make sure you fully understand all of the PA laws before carrying. There are many places that are off limits to carrying and many others that are not off-limits, though often believed to be. Stick around here and read up as much as possible. I've learned a ton of information on this site since joining. A good place to start is the law section and many of the "stickies" threads.
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/113...ws-rights.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...re-you-do.html
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
Here's a link to the Delaware County
"Gun Permit Application." According to the website, it is $46, which means they're way overcharging you for your License to Carry Firearms. It's easy. Fill out the application with two references, give them some cash, and wait.
With a license to carry firearms, the gun can be carried openly or concealed. Without a LTCF, the gun can only be openly carried and only on foot (but to open carry in Philly requires a LTCF) and can only be stored in the car unloaded in the trunk to and from the range, gunshop, or gunsmith.
I guess if having it both ways is your thing, you can have it both ways. :D :D :D Seriously though, you can do a half-assed conceal carry if you like. There is no law that says you have to carry concealed or have to carry openly.
Make sure you fully understand all of the PA laws before carrying. There are many places that are off limits to carrying and many others that are not off-limits, though often believed to be. Stick around here and read up as much as possible. I've learned a ton of information on this site since joining. A good place to start is the law section and many of the "stickies" threads.
http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/113...ws-rights.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...nsylvania.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...re-you-do.html
Thanks for all this great info as its very useful. Just to double check though I can carry on foot on PA state property correct? I read that article and it did not mention bands on carry on PA state land. Im talking about land where hunters/hikers are. Just want to double check is all.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
Thanks for all this great info as its very useful. Just to double check though I can carry on foot on PA state property correct? I read that article and it did not mention bands on carry on PA state land. Im talking about land where hunters/hikers are. Just want to double check is all.
You can't open carry in state parks or state forests, only concealed carry - which requires a license. Here's a thread that covers this:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...e-forests.html
If you're at all unsure of where you can and cannot carry, it is best not to open carry. Get your LTCF and start out concealed carrying... Or read up on the laws and be sure of them before you OC. If you OC, you are advertising to the world that you are carrying (which isn't a bad thing. I open carry often), which means if you mess up and carry where you aren't supposed to, it's open for the world to see. If you CC and you accidentally go where you're not supposed to go (not that I'm advocating doing this), no one is the wiser.
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
max384
You can't open carry in state parks or state forests, only concealed carry - which requires a license. Here's a thread that covers this:
http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...e-forests.html
If you're at all unsure of where you can and cannot carry, it is best not to open carry. Get your LTCF and start out concealed carrying... Or read up on the laws and be sure of them before you OC. If you OC, you are advertising to the world that you are carrying (which isn't a bad thing. I open carry often), which means if you mess up and carry where you aren't supposed to, it's open for the world to see. If you CC and you accidentally go where you're not supposed to go (not that I'm advocating doing this), no one is the wiser.
I should not have any problems with getting approval for the LTCF? As I said I was never convicted of any controlled substance so it should go right in and be fine Im hoping. They want me to state reason for wanting the LTCF on application, is the best answer 'Target Practice' ? Also if I choose to buy a gun say today I would have no problem passing the check? Do the PICS see that I have been approved before for a handgun in the system so I wont get any delays in the future?
Thanks for the info
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Re: I had my record expunged can I now buy firearms?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
revelation9985
I should not have any problems with getting approval for the LTCF? As I said I was never convicted of any controlled substance so it should go right in and be fine Im hoping. They want me to state reason for wanting the LTCF on application, is the best answer 'Target Practice' ? Also if I choose to buy a gun say today I would have no problem passing the check? Do the PICS see that I have been approved before for a handgun in the system so I wont get any delays in the future?
Thanks for the info
You shouldn't have any troubles, I wouldn't think. I don't think there is any 'best answer' to the question. I chose self defense. Each PICS background check is independent of one another. Just because someone passed a background check yesterday is no guarantee that today they are not a prohibited person.