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Bumpstock deadline date in 24 hours March 26 midnight March 25
After March 26th, you are now considered a felon if you are in possession of a bumpstock. Oh, and there is no buyback offered in this. One other state has offered a buyback of $150 each. 300 were turned in so far.
I didnt vote Trump into office to keep FHRC from winning, I voted Trump because he said he had my back on 2A issues. This is nothing short of being back stabbed.
What do you think is next? Remember, the wording of this "law" leaves the door open to just about anything that could be construed as being a part of a machine gun.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
I almost wish I'd have bought one just to not turn it in :/
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
The first 3 for sure.
I always had a feeling braces would go away, which is why I still bothered with SBR stamps.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacemanvic
Remember, the wording of this "law" leaves the door open to just about anything that could be construed as being a part of a machine gun.
It's entirely bullshit because of that fact.
Take away a range toy, and only a range toy, when binary triggers and Geissele super fantastics get a normally stocked semi to run just about as quick? Not a big deal. I don't support it in any way, but there's worse we put up with now (like the whole NFA process and '86 ban on full auto).
Leave an 18 wheeler size hole for any future Democrat president to use to ban everything at a whim? Not cool in any way.
I recommend civil non-compliance for those with skin in the game.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
What law was passed by Congress to ban bump stocks that I wasn't aware of?
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr_Gixxer
What law was passed by Congress to ban bump stocks that I wasn't aware of?
None, but I'm sure you knew that already.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JustinHEMI
The first 3 for sure.
I always had a feeling braces would go away, which is why I still bothered with SBR stamps.
Just means you'll be out $200 on top of whatever you paid extra for the "privilege" of buying that class 3 rifle.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr_Gixxer
What law was passed by Congress to ban bump stocks that I wasn't aware of?
Laws dont matter anymore. Its death by regulation now.
But you go ahead and be cute with the ATF, let us know how that works out for you.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Home made guns (aka unmarked lowers) and +10round magazines.
The other stuff isn't encompassing enough for a Dem to get a ban-boner worked up.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JustinR
Home made guns (aka unmarked lowers) and +10round magazines.
The other stuff isn't encompassing enough for a Dem to get a ban-boner worked up.
You forget Justin, the Dems live on little bites and "its a start". It's always "a start".
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
The low hanging fruit are binary triggers simply because the majority of shooters probably don't care about them because they are over priced, most ranges won't allow their use, and the NRA isn't going to give a damn about them just like bump stocks. Full auto even simulated is for armies and evil people.
After that it's going to be the AR-15 specifically. This is the greatest killing machine ever implemented on the modern battlefield and it's horrifying to think the average schmuck can have one of those ticking time bombs in their closet just waiting to go off and waste 50 people with no skill required. They gotta go and go fast.
Magazine restrictions are going to happen sooner or later however I see it coming on the state level before the federal level at least while there is a R in the White House.
80% receivers can be thrown somewhere in their too.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Is there a purpose to this discussion? And why a poll? And in the national to boot. Just mail it to the DNC and cnn and hogg
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gunsnwater
Is there a purpose to this discussion? And why a poll? And in the national to boot. Just mail it to the DNC and cnn and hogg
Seriously. Move this shit to the lounge so it's not linked to as an example and a handy tool for the lurking left.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gunsnwater
Is there a purpose to this discussion? And why a poll? And in the national to boot. Just mail it to the DNC and cnn and hogg
Other than making people aware of the deadline and that the bumpstock thing was just a start and that many other things are on the table due to the writing of this POS law/not a law (WHO GIVE A PHUCK YOU'D STILL BE A FELON)? Being blinded and made deaf by having your head up your ass still doesnt shield you from what is going on around you.
We dont have to mail squat, Trumps got it figured out all by himself.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emptymag
Seriously. Move this shit to the lounge so it's not linked to as an example and a handy tool for the lurking left.
You dont think they have this crap planned out already!?!?
SERIOUSLY?!?!
Attachment 116239
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacemanvic
You dont think they have this crap planned out already!?!?
SERIOUSLY?!?!
Point taken. :)
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Emptymag
Seriously. Move this shit to the lounge so it's not linked to as an example and a handy tool for the lurking left.
Gunsnwater proposed a motion to move this to the lounge.
Seconded by Emptymag.
Aye!!!
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr_Gixxer
Gunsnwater proposed a motion to move this to the lounge.
Seconded by Emptymag.
Aye!!!
Yes, please.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr_Gixxer
Gunsnwater proposed a motion to move this to the lounge.
Seconded by Emptymag.
Aye!!!
Despite your sig line, you sure do like to tuck and run.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
buckengr
Yes, please.
Shadow account Gix?
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
From an earlier thread I started back in December:
Gunlawyer:
Quote:
"Bump stocks are not the hill to die on, but this thread certainly identifies Friends of Hillary. Or Kamala.
My bet would be that the "reinterpretation" gets tossed by the courts, leaving it to Congress to try to ban them by changing the law. And the Dems won't be cooperating to pass any new laws if Trump is claiming credit. "
"Even General Patton compromised, he never just went balls-to-the-walls against every enemy, he evaluated the terrain and he adapted. Be like George Patton, not like George Custer, who refused to compromise and lost everything. "
Scruff:
Quote:
"Even Sen. Feinstein Knows the Trump Bump Stock Ban is on Thin Legal Ice"
John 9001:
Quote:
"Based on the statements I see on here I predict a democrat landslide victory win in 2020.
Never let the good fail because of the lack of perfect. The Republic is doomed because Trump banned stupid bumpy things.
If you want to play GI Joe go buy a real machine gun, then you can do mag dumps and get all excited. "
Alpacaheat:
Quote:
"I agree, Phil. Perhaps he's throwing the Dems a bone to get more important things accomplished, with the hopes and faith in his appointed judges to make sure nothing is upheld that's not in line with the Constitution.
Now's not the time to panic and abandon him, he's our only hope at salvaging the nation and our freedoms. now is the time to stay on him to keep his promises. If Hillary was President, we'd probably all have received a knock on the door already. "
So, you guys still feel Im blowing this out of proportion and it just effects bumpstocks?
Forbes, March 1, 2019:
Quote:
Bump Stock Rule Puts Constitution In The Crosshairs
Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi recently warned Republicans that if a GOP president can declare a national emergency over a wall on the southern border, the next Democrat president could declare one over gun violence. Her threat envisioned future gun control actions without Congress. But that’s already happening—and it has made a shambles of constitutional lawmaking.
The Department of Justice (DOJ) issued the Bump Stock Type Devices Final Rule late last year. This criminal regulation retroactively bans ownership of bump stocks, an accessory that helps shooters fire semi-automatic weapons more quickly by bumping the trigger with their finger when the gun recoils.
When the 90-day compliance window closes on March 26, lawful purchasers of some 520,000 bump stocks must have either surrendered their devices or destroyed them. Absent judicial relief, this regulation will convert all remaining owners of bump stocks into felons without action by Congress.
But the various lawsuits pending against the rule are not about guns or gun rights. Rather, these suits ask whether DOJ may create new criminal laws without involving Congress. The Constitution’s answer is a firm no. New criminal laws must clear the twin constitutional hurdles of “bicameralism” (passage by both houses of Congress) and “presentment” (Presidential signature or veto override).
Even a staunch gun control advocate like Senator Dianne Feinstein has recognized that Congress must be the one to act here: “Until March 2018, ATF maintained that bump stocks could not be banned through administrative action. Legislation is necessary to ensure a ban is implemented and regulations are not tied up in court.” Likewise, the Obama Administration faced tremendous pressure from allies to ban bump stocks via regulation but decided that it could not lawfully do so unilaterally. A pen and a phone would not suffice for this.
Nevertheless, current policymakers have defined two allegedly ambiguous terms in the 1934 National Firearms Act in order to ban bump stocks. Despite 80+ years of clarity and dozens of federal cases deeming the statute unambiguous, DOJ is trying to create a loophole in the definition of “machinegun” to fit bump stocks into it. Usually it’s criminal defendants who try such stunts to exempt their machineguns from the ban. This time it’s DOJ claiming ambiguity—and eroding respect for the rule of law.
Worse yet, in this week’s case out of the federal district court in D.C., the judge invoked the Chevron doctrine in deferring to DOJ’s definition of the terms “single function of the trigger” and “automatically.” DOJ’s new definitions are awkward at best, but Chevron poses the more nettlesome problem. This embarrassing precedent tells federal judges to defer to the executive branch’s statutory interpretation whenever the judge decides that a statute is ambiguous and the agency’s interpretation is reasonable. There is not room here for a complete takedown of Chevron, so suffice it to say that the D.C. plaintiffs did not enjoy due process of law when their judge deferred to the other party in the case rather than providing her independent judgment.
Besides which, the Chevron doctrine should not even come into play where a criminal statute is concerned. The Rule of Lenity dictates construing ambiguity in a criminal statute in favor of defendants. And make no mistake; there will be defendants. DOJ has conceded in court that it will use these same definitions to go after any bump stock owners who hold onto their devices.
Therein lies a future injustice. It is practically certain that some number of lawful purchasers will not get the word that bump stocks were banned. They will show up at a gun range to fire one, be seen there by an ATF agent or other law enforcement official and get arrested. The penalty is up to 10 years in prison and a permanent ban on gun ownership. These innocent owners will have no reason to have anticipated a ban—at least not a retroactive one. When Congress banned machineguns themselves in 1986, it did not do so retroactively.
This fact raises two further questions. First, how can a statute that did not ban anything retroactively later be construed to authorize banning bump stocks retroactively? It cannot, at least not when interpreted reasonably. Perhaps the greatest indignity to the Constitution in these cases is the idea that a statute that quite deliberately did not ban machineguns retroactively can be rewritten later by a federal agency to ban bump stocks retroactively. DOJ—and the D.C. district court—rely on the fiction that the statute is ambiguous when it is just silent.
Second, were Congress to ban bump stocks, would it do so retroactively and with the same penalty structure as owning an actual machinegun? History says no, especially since Congress has tried and failed to ban bump stocks several times—and those bills were rarely retroactive.
But DOJ’s loopholing requires it to use the same penalty structure because DOJ knows that courts will not let it get away with altering the length of sentences. DOJ often assures that prosecutorial discretion will prevent injustice. Somehow trust in that is hard to muster when the Department is already mangling the Constitution to rewrite the statute.
Congress is generally not willing to turn law-abiding citizens into felons, because Congress has to face voters. Administrative agencies like ATF and DOJ face no voters and show no such qualms. Bump stock owners risk prison as a result. Everyone else risks the terrifying consequences of allowing DOJ to write criminal laws without Congress. After all, if DOJ can create the bump stock rule, what stops it from bypassing Congress to create criminal laws on other subjects?
Barrels of ink have been spilled criticizing the administration’s national emergency declaration to transfer some funds for building a wall on the southern border. The bump stock ban sets a far worse precedent, yet comparatively little alarm has been raised. No matter one’s feelings about gun control policy, everyone should oppose rapid-fire destruction of constitutional lawmaking. Our liberty is in jeopardy.
Washington Post Feb 26, 2019:
Quote:
Bump-stock ban enacted by Trump administration can stand, federal judge rules
A federal judge in Washington ruled late Monday that the Trump administration’s ban on rapid-fire rifle attachments known as bump stocks can move forward, stymieing efforts by gun-rights groups that sought to block the new policy.
In a 64-page decision, U.S. District Judge Dabney L. Friedrich found that the Firearms Policy Coalition and other groups did not put forth any convincing legal arguments in favor of stopping the Trump administration from carrying out the ban, which targets a device used in the 2017 Las Vegas massacre, the deadliest mass shooting in modern U.S. history.
Friedrich, a 2017 appointee of President Trump to the District of Columbia, ruled it was “reasonable” of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to conclude that a bump-stock, which uses the recoil energy from a rifle to automatically fire the next round, performs the same function as a machine gun and should therefore be banned just like machine guns under federal law.
GOA March 19, 2019:
Quote:
OA Fighting Gun Control Attacks at Home and from Abroad
This is an important update on some of the important battles that Gun Owners of America is fighting right now.
We are still awaiting a decision on GOA’s court case involving bump stocks.
We had hoped to get a decision by last week. But since we have not, GOA today filed an emergency petition and motion in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.
In it, we are asking the Court of Appeals to order the district court to halt ATF’s regulation until the court issues its decision on our pending motion.
Also, we separately asked the Court of Appeals to stay the regulation until any appeal is heard — a stay that could hopefully last weeks or months while we make our case as to why the ATF ban is illegal.
"Tolerance is the lube that helps slip the dildo of dysfunction into the ass of a civilized society." Plato
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacemanvic
Despite your sig line, you sure do like to tuck and run.
Wtf are you going on about?
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
There's no box for I don't give a fuck I'm not turning in shit.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Yoder
There's no box for I don't give a fuck I'm not turning in shit.
I second this, what are these bumpstops y'all referring to ;)
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
I think this is in the right forum. It is a national issue and at this point, who cares what antis think. There are times where i understand that discretion is the better part of valor, but this is not one of those times. This is a serious breach of law, justice, property rights and the trust many of us had in Trump... imo... and the louder, more in the face of the issue we are the better.
Don't make this easy on politicians, don't hide our disdain...... the harder we make this the harder it is for them to make the next attack on the 2nd. They should know people will not comply with an unjust decision that arbitrarily deprives people of their property.
I do not own one nor did I want one until this came about. But I do stand with those who have bump stocks that are basically being told to destroy something that they legally bought. People who are unhappy with this should not have to hide their disdain in the wasteland..... er I mean lounge.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Well if the deadline is in six days all the people must have turned them in by now.
How many did they get,,,, three, five, ten, five hundred and twenty thousand?
You would think the fake news would update all their brainwashed libtard listeners every day on how many were turned in so far.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mr_Gixxer
Wtf are you going on about?
I plead the flu Gix for my misunderstanding. Sorry :(
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
spacemanvic
I plead the flu. Never mind.
It's all good lol :cool:
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
internet troll
I think this is in the right forum. It is a national issue and at this point, who cares what antis think. There are times where i understand that discretion is the better part of valor, but this is not one of those times. This is a serious breach of law, justice, property rights and the trust many of us had in Trump... imo... and the louder, more in the face of the issue we are the better.
Don't make this easy on politicians, don't hide our disdain...... the harder we make this the harder it is for them to make the next attack on the 2nd. They should know people will not comply with an unjust decision that arbitrarily deprives people of their property.
I do not own one nor did I want one until this came about. But I do stand with those who have bump stocks that are basically being told to destroy something that they legally bought. People who are unhappy with this should not have to hide their disdain in the wasteland..... er I mean lounge.
And that is quite different than a poll on what to ban next. Show me the constructive side not the defeatist. Wallowing is not why I come here.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Gunsnwater
And that is quite different than a poll on what to ban next. Show me the constructive side not the defeatist. Wallowing is not why I come here.
I believe the poll is not what TO ban next but what they will TRY and ban next.
Context matters.
They already have their funding, agenda and goals set on the state and federal level as if they require this thread to get an idea on what's out there and where to start.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hodgie
I believe the poll is not what TO ban next but what they will TRY and ban next.
Context matters.
They already have their funding, agenda and goals set on the state and federal level as if they require this thread to get an idea on what's out there and where to start.
Exactly, thank you! I gotta spread rep.
Despite a fever etc, I thought it was important enough to make a post alerting everyone that hey, this thing is coming to fruition, eyes front. You cant run and hide from this tidal wave of crap, you have to turn and face it. I myself dont own a slidefire, but I dont believe for one minute that they will stop at just that. If this thing goes through, which every indication is that it will, just like the illegal GCA of 1934, we all will have to decide what path we take.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Don't worry. Several here will tell us how sacrificing those small things are all part of the 4D chess and those of us that dare criticize his Magesty are just too dumb to see the bigger picture.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
There will never be an end to what they want to take unless and until everything has been taken. It is obvious that the lawless will always be lawless and taking our rights away will never solve the problem or eliminate the evil in the world but they don't seem to get that. I will never stand in line to forfeit anything I have.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walleye Hunter
There will never be an end to what they want to take unless and until everything has been taken. It is obvious that the lawless will always be lawless and taking our rights away will never solve the problem or eliminate the evil in the world but they don't seem to get that. I will never stand in line to forfeit anything I have.
You misunderstand the dynamics of the situation. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with stopping evil. Evil is what is taking your rights away, this time without the guise of law. If anything, those in power have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the law isnt worth the paper it is written on and is malleable to the ebb and flow of their whim. The law only applies to those ruled, not the rulers.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Walleye Hunter
There will never be an end to what they want to take unless and until everything has been taken. It is obvious that the lawless will always be lawless and taking our rights away will never solve the problem or eliminate the evil in the world but they don't seem to get that. I will never stand in line to forfeit anything I have.
Stand strong brother. I aint giving up shit either!
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JustinR
I almost wish I'd have bought one just to not turn it in :/
Heh heh heh...
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Utah case about the unconstitutionality of the bump stock ban just got shut Down:
Quote:
Judge again rejects Utah gun enthusiast's attempt to block federal bump stock SALT LAKE CITY — A federal judge has again rejected a Utah gun enthusiast's attempt to block a new rule that bans a gun accessory known as a bump stock in the U.S. starting next Tuesday.
U.S. District Judge Jill Parrish denied Clark Aposhian's request for a preliminary injunction last week, concluding he isn't likely to win the lawsuit he filed against the government on its Aposhian, chairman of the Utah Shooting Sports Council, appealed the ruling to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver and asked Parrish to issue an injunction pending the appeal.
Parrish wrote that he is in effect asking the court to reverse course and grant him the injunction he was denied a week ago merely because he intends to appeal.
"In short, the court’s finding that Mr. Aposhian has not shown a likelihood of success on the merits is as fatal to his request for an injunction pending appeal as it was to his request for a preliminary injunction," the judge wrote.
Aposhian argues in the lawsuit that the Department of Justice and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives violated the Constitution in prohibiting bump stocks, which modify rifles to fire like automatic weapons.
The Trump administration in late December adopted a new federal rule that redefined the devices as "machine guns," therefore banning them under existing law. The rule directs owners to destroy or surrender their bump stocks to the ATF before it takes effect March 26.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.des...-stock-ban.amp
In effect, the judge ruled that continuing the case is pointless because the decision to ban is already made, suck it up.
Consolidated cases (Codrea, Guedes, FPC) in Washington DC will be argued tomorrow morning at 9:30. Then we are probably done in the courts.
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Re: Bumpstock deadline date in 6 days
Don’t worry guys once they take the bump stocks they will back off with the other 50 anti gun bills that are currently pending and then we can all sleep soundly with our AR’s and AK’s in our arms.