It's all in how you word it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27hand
How many of you have taken firearms training classes from instructors that teach the defensive use of firearms?
I don't mean NRA training where you cannot even use the word "weapon" .
We all know that our defensive firearm IS a weapon.
Hans
So when I learned it, it must of been wrong then, because I learnt a weapon was some thing you assault with, where as a firearm was some thing you used to defend or as a sport.
Example, If some one used their car as a weapon against me by trying to run me over, I could use a wall or a truck to defend my self... Nor the truck or the wall is a weapon, just a defense mechanism.
The reason the NRA will not tolerate the word Weapon is because we are not members trained in the art of killing in the NRA, but for sporting or defense needs. You could use your car as a race car if you had say a Ferrari or even some thing like a vette or a camaro.
But try telling PEN-DOT you need to put a plate on your "Race car" and see what they say. Same car, different definition, one is meant to race, the other to drive. You can drive fast, just never say you where "racing" to a police officer.
Now if you are trained in the Military, you would say weapons because that is what they do, they are mandated to go out and protect some thing or some one. And if need be are licensed to kill. (assault)
So I'm not saying that the word is wrong, just that if you are using the word, take the whole definition. If you are using a weapon, it should be ceased from you unless you are military or a LEO who can then say that he is mandated. As a citizen, you own guns. As for the mindset thing you say you have, saying you have a Weapon and that:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 27hand
I have the mindset that if someone is trying to do me dirty and I feel threatened , my firearm, knife, hands and mind are weapons at my disposal. I hope I am never put to the test, but I also know if I am, I can.
This is known as pre-meditation, meaning you already have it all planned out in your mind, so say you shot some one now, even if you normally would be in the wright to do so, your very "mindset" and publishing it could very well land you in jail. 1: for owning a weapon 2: for having a mindset of killing rather then protecting should the occasion arise.
Your choice in words can very well define how you think and live, but that can follow you a long time. In 30 years from now, you may be forced to use a defencive device, might be as simple as punching some one out, but posting some thing saying you where ready and had the "mindset" to kill if need be, would be used against you in a court of law should some one dig it up.
Quote:
MY personal opinion is that when firearms are used for self defense training, the gun is not a target shooting toy, it is a WEAPON and the person being trained is there to be trained to use deadly force if necessary to protect himself and /or his family with that weapon.
When a firearm or any other defence is used in defending a person, it is a defence mechanism. It is not a weapon, And guns should never be refered to as a toy either. I understand you mean well in your posting, but your wording is all wrong, not just by NRA standards, but by any sporting or self defence standards. If i had to defend my self and later in court I had to explain it, I would say "I used the defence mechanisms available to me..." If asked to name them, I could then say "A shotgun, a pistol, a wall, a 2x4 or a knife." If I say a "weapon", I immediately place my self in a position to admit I was assulting rather then defending. Showing there was a pre-meditation to my actions.
Here are a few definitions for you.
Main Entry: mind-set
Pronunciation: 'mIn(d)-"set
Function: noun
1 : a mental attitude or inclination
2 : a fixed state of mind (pre-meditation)
Main Entry: 1as·sault
Pronunciation: &-'solt
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English assaut, from Anglo-French, from Vulgar Latin *assaltus, from assalire
1 a : a violent physical or verbal attack b : a military attack usually involving direct combat with enemy forces c : a concerted effort (as to reach a goal or defeat an adversary)
2 a : a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact
Main Entry: 1weap·on
Pronunciation: 'we-p&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English wepen, from Old English w[AE]pen; akin to Old High German wAffan weapon, Old Norse vApn
1 : something (as a club, knife, or gun) used to injure, defeat, or destroy
2 : a means of contending against another
Versus
Main Entry: 1gun
Pronunciation: 'g&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gonne, gunne
1 a : a piece of ordnance usually with high muzzle velocity and comparatively flat trajectory b : a portable firearm (as a rifle or handgun) c : a device that throws a projectile
2 a : a discharge of a gun especially as a salute or signal.
Main Entry: 1kill
Pronunciation: 'kil
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English, perhaps from Old English *cyllan; akin to Old English cwellan to kill -- transitive verb
1 a : to deprive of life : cause the death of b (1) : to slaughter (as a hog) for food (2) : to convert a food animal into (a kind of meat) by slaughtering
The word weapon is to the word gun the same as the word murder is to the word kill. The result is the same but the meaning is not.
Big book says "Thou salt not murder". Murder is having the mindset of removing ones life in pre-meditation.
It does not say "Thou salt not kill" where as you may well have to kill to defend your self, this would not be murder. Words and how you use them can make all the differance in how people react to what you say and mostly to how they react to you as a person.
Sorry about the 2 mile long post guys..