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Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
A student that I trained informed me that the Glenolden Police department in Delaware County have confiscated his firearm and VALID Florida Permit during a routine traffic stop. He has a property receipt but the PD is refusing to return his firearm and FL permit. They have reported that they will not return his property until they check with Delco Sheriff to see if he had applied for a PA LTCF; (would he have been granted an LTCF). What does his elligability for a PA LTCF have to do with it? He has a valid permit that PA is to recognize. This shit has to sooner or later STOP! I am so tired of hearing horor stories about peoples rights being blatently violated. Individual has only applied to FL. He has never sought a PA LTCF ye. What recourse does he have? The sergeant and chief of police refuse to meet with him.
gbrown221
NRA Instructor, CRSO
Utah CFP Instructor
info@team-life.org
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
If the police were correct, then what would HB2536 be needed for?
:(
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gbrown221
What recourse does he have?
Besides the obvious (to get a lawyer)? I'd also suggest making it public with any local media agency who's willing to listen. Start with the Philadelphia Inquirer reporter who broke the story of the Philadelphians who had their firearms and Florida CWLs confiscated without any due process or reasonable articulable suspicion.
It's truly frightening that law enforcement agencies are now enforcing proposed laws, if, in fact, the details you've provided are accurate.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Your freind needs to retain a good greedy attorny and sue the county,state,and local police department. I had just read the code and laws in regards to transpotation of conceled wepons, and as long as Pa. reconizes Fla. CWP he has not broken any law. Once he is settled in Pa. he is to apply for a non-resident permit. Check this out, I could be wrong. If I'm not mistaken I saw it on this site. And if you look close, Pa. is a right to carry state. You can openly carry in this state other than in the city of Philly. Don't allow the police to change the laws just because they have a badge. They are to inforce the law, not make it up as they please.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
You realize it costs money to retain a lawyer everytime someone with some authority takes it upon themselve to do as they like to another person. Not everyone can readily afford lawyers rates today.......
Is this becomming a concerted effort by LE in PA to get Fla. permits banned ?
I hope not.............seems like these are New Jersey tactics at work.......
Look Out PA................
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
I would contact the State Attorney General's Office and let them know what happened.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Yes it does take money but that is something that needs to be done as that is the only recourse to issues like this... plain and simple..
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
My Utah CFP instructor told our class that it is a violation of federal law for PA police to confiscate an out of state carry permit. Can any lawyer-types chime in?
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
xXxplosive
You realize it costs money to retain a lawyer everytime someone with some authority takes it upon themselve to do as they like to another person. Not everyone can readily afford lawyers rates today.......
Is this becomming a concerted effort by LE in PA to get Fla. permits banned ?
I hope not.............seems like these are New Jersey tactics at work.......
Look Out PA................
That's why we have fund raisers.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
kcr121
Besides the obvious (to get a lawyer)? I'd also suggest making it public with any local media agency who's willing to listen. Start with the Philadelphia Inquirer reporter who broke the story of the Philadelphians who had their firearms and Florida CWLs confiscated without any due process or reasonable articulable suspicion.
It's truly frightening that law enforcement agencies are now enforcing proposed laws, if, in fact, the details you've provided are accurate.
the details are accurate as I visited the PD on second trip with him personally those of you who know me personally will also vouch for my character and reputation.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gbrown221
the details are accurate as I visited the PD on second trip with him personally those of you who know me personally will also vouch for my character and reputation.
Check your PM.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
doug257
My Utah CFP instructor told our class that it is a violation of federal law for PA police to confiscate an out of state carry permit. Can any lawyer-types chime in?
I just recently returned from Utah having attended the Utah CFP Instructor class. I do not recall such statement being made to us.
I could be wrong
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Sadly The media has put such a biased spin on out of state permits, I don’t believe we have a majority of public support In the Philly area. But there is no doubt that this gun was stolen, Not confiscated as they had no legal authority to do so. There are attorneys who provide free consultations I would start there. Then ask If you can Indeed report this firearm stolen. Maybe Gunlawyer001 can shed some light on this.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
I would certainly contact the Attorney Generals Office on this matter as one action item.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
So far, Viper has made a lot of headway by contacting Internal Affairs about his illegal confiscation.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Curmudgeon
So far, Viper has made a lot of headway by contacting Internal Affairs about his illegal confiscation.
I wonder if many small municipal departments even have their own "Internal Affairs" division?
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
You can start here.
Thomas Danzi Council President Council 610-583-3221
Ken Pfaff Vice President Council Council 610-583-3221
Gerry Quinn Mayor Council 610-583-3221
Gerry McGettigan Public Safety Council 610-583-3221
Jim Boothby Finance & Law Council 610-583-3221
Anne Cicala Parks & Property Council 610-583-3221
Matt Ruggiero Highway & Lights Council 610-583-3221
Kevin McGarvey Health & Sewer Council 610-583-3221
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gnbrotz
I wonder if many small municipal departments even have their own "Internal Affairs" division?
I know, but it would only take a phone call to find out. What else then, State Police?
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
correct me if im wrong, you CANT obtain a fl ltcf if you dont qualify in pa?
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Curmudgeon
I know, but it would only take a phone call to find out. What else then, State Police?
I would be shocked to learn of state police intervention against another PD, even if the other PD forcibly entered someone's home and confiscated all firearms without any warrant whatsoever. I far more expect them to "protect their own" than to "police their own". Even the IA situation in Philly basically came down to, "We broke the law (and we KNOW that), but we were following departmental policy, so go screw yourself. If you really want justice, find a way to come up with tens of thousands of dollars to sue us, because we sure as hell aren't going to discipline anyone."
Put out all the memos you want. Until actual practice changes, a piece of paper doesn't mean squat.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Just a random idea here.
I wonder if it would be legal to do fund raising for a civil rights suit by raffle.
Let's say we sell raffle tickets at $100 each. The funds are used for a civil rights case. If, and only if, the defendant wins and gets some monetary windfall from it, the money is split into ... uhm ... let's say six parts. 50% go to the defendant. 5 x 10% go to drawn raffle ticket purchasers. Unused funds are added to the pot.
If the case is lost ... well, we'll think about that later.
Would this even be legal?
Jan
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bogey1
correct me if im wrong, you CANT obtain a fl ltcf if you dont qualify in pa?
that is correct. FL criteria is probably more stringent then PA because of fingerprints, training and notary required. but then again PA has their favorite catchall BS "character clause".
gbrown221
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Ya forgot da lawyer...................
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gbrown221
that is correct. FL criteria is probably more stringent then PA because of fingerprints, training and notary required. but then again PA has their favorite catchall BS "character clause".
gbrown221
im not much into reading the paper but, phily says theres a loophole where people here that cant get them go to fl to get them? why cant they get them here but they can in fl?
is it because phily just doesnt want to issue them?
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Philly is apparently using accusations and charges against someone, even if the charges are dismissed. FL simply acts upon convictions.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
The excuse we seem to be hearing lately is "it's Gestap.... er I mean PD policy to".
Seems they now get to dictate the laws on top of enforcing them...this arrogance and authoritarianism is astounding in America
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Anonymouse - How would HB2536 help. It only applied to non-residents with out of state licenses? It is actually taking away the rights of PA reisdents who get an out of state license!
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Contact
1. State's Attorney General's office
2. State Senator Nick Miccarelli
3. State Rep. Anthony H. Williams
I don't know the position on 2A of 2 or 3 but, it's my understanding that failure to honor a reciprocity agreement is something that you may be able to convince the AG's office to at least make a phone call or even issue a letter.
Also, driving slower and obeying traffic signals and signs and this may not have happened.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Sandcut
Contact
Also, driving slower and obeying traffic signals and signs and this may not have happened.
I take you have NEVER been stopped by a LEO your entire time as a licensed driver .. (i think not)
We all make mistakes, but it is no excuse for a person to overstep their authority just because they have a badge.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gbrown221
We all make mistakes, but it is no excuse for a person to overstep their authority just because they have a badge.
Never mind the fact that there are lots of ways to have an LEO "encounter" without committing any violation whatsoever. An accident where another party is at fault, an accident where you are not involved, but are a witness, etc.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
This type of behavior by our police departments is unacceptable.
The confiscation of our property, the leaving us disarmed and unable to defend ourselves, and the cost associated with something that should not cost us in the first place.
Do we want to star a fund I know I will throw some money in. I know if I were in his shoes.. I would be highly upset and would need help as well.
I have friends and relatives who are police officers, Lord knows I hope they never get involved in these type of affairs.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
This stuff SO infuriates me... especially because they do it figuring that the victim will just lay down for it... and not have the time willingness or financial ability to fight it.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
gbrown221
They have reported that they will not return his property until they check with Delco Sheriff to see if he had applied for a PA LTCF; (would he have been granted an LTCF). What does his elligability for a PA LTCF have to do with it? He has a valid permit that PA is to recognize. [.....] Individual has only applied to FL. He has never sought a PA LTCF ye.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
anonymouse
If the police were correct, then what would HB2536 be needed for?
:(
Quote:
Originally Posted by
PA-Joe
Anonymouse - How would HB2536 help. It only applied to non-residents with out of state licenses? It is actually taking away the rights of PA reisdents who get an out of state license!
I was assuming the individual in this incident was a Pennsylvania resident.
HB2536 was originally written to prevent Pennsylvania residents from carrying with reciprocal licenses. See http://www.legis.state.pa.us/CFDOCS/...r=2536&pn=3790
The police here are claiming that this individual can't carry with the FL permit because he doesn't have / didn't apply for a PA LTCF. If that were the case, then why would Lentz need to introduce a bill to change the law?
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
I am truly disgusted about this whole situation. Pennsylvania police officers don't have the authority to confiscate and retain firearms and PA LTCF's after a routine traffic stop, and they certainly don't have the authority to do so with licenses/permits issued by other states.
This is nothing short of official oppression and the Officer and department responsible need to be held accountable.
I agree with others about contacting the Attorney General's office, and it may also serve the person in question to contact (or have a lawyer contact) the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division of Licensing.
Edit: If a legal fund is set up to provide for donations in this case, I will gladly contribute the small amount that I am able.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IronSight
I agree with others about contacting the Attorney General's office, and it may also serve the person in question to contact (or have a lawyer contact) the Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services Division of Licensing.
And get Charles Bronson involved for us? :D
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Quote:
Originally Posted by
anonymouse
And get Charles Bronson involved for us? :D
It's worth a try; he hasn't had a problem calling out PA officials before.
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/crime.aspx?id=184
Note: It has come to the attention of the Office of Attorney General that there has been confusion over the applicability of Pennsylvania's reciprocal privileges with regard to the residency status of an individual who has been issued a valid license/permit. It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence
Mailing Address:
Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General
16th Floor, Strawberry Square
Harrisburg, PA 17120
Regional Offices:
Find a regional office near you
Phone:
717-787-3391
Fax:
717-787-8242
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Email the department/officer the following. I covered out of state licenses in my departments annual firearms training and qualifications this week.
Out of State Non-resident Licenses
“It has come to the attention of the Office of Attorney General that there has been confusion over the applicability of Pennsylvania's reciprocal privileges with regard to the residency status of an individual who has been issued a valid license/permit.* It is the position of the Office of Attorney General that recognition within Pennsylvania is based on the issuance to an individual of a valid license/permit by the reciprocal contracting state, and not on the license/permit holder's place of residence.”
Tom Corbett
Pennsylvania Attorney General
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/weapons/index.html
Charles H. Bronson, Commissioner - Constance N. Crawford, Director
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Re: Glenolden Police confiscate gun and FL permit
Update: We have a phone conference with the Twp. Manager and the Twp. Solicitor today. We are giving them until the end of today; come friday we file a petition for return of property in Delcom Common Please Court or local magistrate. I am not sure which Venue yet.