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About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
By law in PA there is no "registration" of guns or "firearms" in PA. However certain types of guns legally defined as "firearms" must be transferred properly and that transfer recorded.
The definition of a "firearm" is the following.
1. a handgun, pistol, or revolver with a barrel less than 15"
2. *a rifle with a barrel less than 16"
3. *a shotgun with a barrel less than 18"
4. *a rifle or shotgun with an overall length less than 26"
*being an NFA device and requiring the proper Federal tax stamp and true registration.
For item 1 above to sell, give, or transfer an item from one person to another it must be taken to a FFL or Sheriff, fill out the PSP transfer form, and have a PICS instant background check performed upon the receiving party. There is an exemption though for transfers between spouses, parent/child, and grandparent/grandchild - which no paperwork is necessary.
The FFL then sends a copy of the PSP transfer record to the Sheriff, who in turn provides the info to the PSP. The PSP then maintains a database of who the firearms are transferred to.
It is the duty of the seller to properly transfer the firearm.
Long guns like rifles and shotguns may be sold, given or transferred from one private person to another without any paperwork, so long as you have no reason to believe they are a prohibited person or believe they have an intent to commit a crime.
In the United States, only five states have handgun registration and they are; California, Hawaii, New York, Maryland, and Michigan. Washington DC and a couple of the territories and protectorates also have registration. Some of the other states require a similar transfer recording like how PA does it, mostly to make sure the receiving person has had a background check performed. Others allow the gun to be traded or sold just like any other piece of property.
This post is subject to edit by staff and legal opinion.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
I second knight0334 on this one. Please sticky this, the constant "registration" questions are starting to get to me.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
knight0334
Sticky please??
Please....
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Heh - have a draft of similar info on this :)
I stuck the thread and will add a few tibits later when I get to my PC with the draft/info ;)
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pa. Patriot
Heh - have a draft of similar info on this :)
I stuck the thread and will add a few tibits later when I get to my PC with the draft/info ;)
Coolness. :)
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
I take back everything bad I've said about you, Rich. :D ;)
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Does an ar-15 (complete) with a standard size barrel need to be transferred through an FFL?
Going to be putting the G/Fs Dad's AR-15 up here for sale soon and wasn't sure if we need an FFL.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrewjs18
Does an ar-15 (complete) with a standard size barrel need to be transferred through an FFL?
Going to be putting the G/Fs Dad's AR-15 up here for sale soon and wasn't sure if we need an FFL.
Intrastate - no, its a long gun.
Interstate - yes.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
knight0334
Intrastate - no, its a long gun.
Interstate - yes.
Ok cool..wasn't sure since I knew a stripper lower has to be sent to an FFL.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
andrewjs18
Ok cool..wasn't sure since I knew a stripper lower has to be sent to an FFL.
Only if private to private interstate transfers. The only part of a gun that is the "firearm" is the receiver whether it is assembled as a gun or not. Intrastate transfers of long guns(long gun receivers) can be shipped via common carrier to the doorstep of a fellow state resident.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
So that I am completely clear, if I call a dealer on the other side of the state and order two stripped lowers for AR-15s, can he send them to me instead of sending them to an FFL-01 and doing the formal transfer?? (Assuming I can convince the dealer that I am qualified to own a firearm).
Or said a different way, can a phone call and exchange of driver's license or FFL-02 via FAX or email satisfy the requirements for a face-to-face exchange of a long gun?
Thanks for the additional assistance.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Hawki72
So that I am completely clear, if I call a dealer on the other side of the state and order two stripped lowers for AR-15s, can he send them to me instead of sending them to an FFL-01 and doing the formal transfer?? (Assuming I can convince the dealer that I am qualified to own a firearm).
Or said a different way, can a phone call and exchange of driver's license or FFL-02 via FAX or email satisfy the requirements for a face-to-face exchange of a long gun?
Thanks for the additional assistance.
No, that is a commercial transfer and you must do that in person.
Private transfers of long guns can be shipped to private doorsteps within the same state so long as there are no state laws that prohibit it, which in PA there are none.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Thank you everyone for your kind words and the good info...sunsponge
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Sorry new to owning a firearm other than my shotgun .I have been given a few psitols and a rifle from my deceased step father .Do I have to register them? I would feel better if I did ,but i can't find anything on the subject (where to go ).I live in northampton county pa.I can't find anything on it and since he has passed I want to be able to prove they are mine .Please help you never know what can happen somebody could steal them or something .
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1brain1
Sorry new to owning a firearm other than my shotgun .I have been given a few psitols and a rifle from my deceased step father .Do I have to register them? I would feel better if I did ,but i can't find anything on the subject (where to go ).I live in northampton county pa.I can't find anything on it and since he has passed I want to be able to prove they are mine .Please help you never know what can happen somebody could steal them or something .
There is no registration of guns in PA. Please, stop using the word "registration" unless you are talking about sawed off shotguns/rifles, machine guns, suppressors, grenades, or any other NFA device.
Longguns like rifles and shotguns are treated like used furniture when it comes to private sales, trades, gifts, etc. ...no "transfer" paperwork necessary and can be passed around like a cheap hooker or a joint.
Your pistols that you inherited.. Were they given directly to you via a will or through the executor of estate? If they came straight from the will or via the executor, it should have been transferred through a FFL or the Sheriff since your step-dad isn't one of the named exempted transfers.
If that gun was inherited by your wife from her dad, then she gave it to you - then NO transfer paperwork is necessary.
You're not committing any crime by not having that handgun in your name.. worst case is that if stopped, the police will try to give it back to the last owner on record - which will be a dead man. ...Since he is dead, the spouse/heir will get it - which in turn will end up back in your hands.
If it really bugs you, just hand it to your wife, go to a dealer, then have her transfer it into your name. It'll cost $15-$50 and 15minutes of your time.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
if there is no registration in pa, why do the state police have information on the transfer? im trying to clear something up with a friend, i told him there is no legal registration in pa but he disagrees. i know this subject has been beaten to death but if someone could direct me to a post about it i would be grateful. bogey
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bogey1
if there is no registration in pa, why do the state police have information on the transfer? im trying to clear something up with a friend, i told him there is no legal registration in pa but he disagrees. i know this subject has been beaten to death but if someone could direct me to a post about it i would be grateful. bogey
The PSP maintains a database of PSP form SP4-113 transactions.
This database is allegedly used to *assist* in gun traces persuant to criminal investigations.
AGSL sued the PSP over the "database" and the SCOPA determined that the database was not a registry (which is prohibited under 18Pa.C.S.6111.4) because it did not contain a list of all handguns owned in Pa. :rolleyes:
Short of it is that a registry is prohibited by law and your buddy is wrong ;)
Links as requested that goes into more detail:
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...tml#post509716
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pa. Patriot
We feel it is. However, when ACSL sued Ridge and the PSP over this the court decided that since the database was only certain type of sales/transfers, that it was not a "registry". IOW, since it is not complete it is not an "ownership registry".
This is ridiculous and flies in the face of what 18Pa.C.S.6111.4 intends, but it is the supreme courts ruling.
Luckily, this clarification still benefits us in that LEO agencies can NOT now claim that the database means something in regards to ownership.
Since not all handgun transfers are in it it is meaningless as a check of ownership.
Read all about the lawsuit, and the road to the supreme court, here:
http://www.acslpa.org/n-register/n-registration.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...tml#post509797
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Pa. Patriot
1) Pursuant to
18Pa.C.S.§6111, generally, all sales from an FFL as well as transfers of ownership of other persons (sales/gifts/trades/etc) of firearms (as defined in 6102) must be done by an FFL or Sheriff and a form SP4-113 executed.
The county sheriff gets a copy of the SP4-113 and they send the info periodically to the PSP for their "database".
2) There ARE exceptions to #1 above. spouse to spouse, child-parent-grandparent as well as FFL's are exempt from the requirement to execute a SP4-113 or have the transfer conducted at an FFL/Sheriff.
Additionally, you can bring handguns from out of state when you move to Pa. You could also have handguns that were yours BEFORE 6111 took effect... among other reasons our handgun would not show up on the database.
3) Rifles are not subject to the provisions of 6111 and are not put on the Pa. form SP4-113 (Application/Record of Sale) Only firearms defined in
18Pa.C.S.§6102, which is handguns, SBS ad SBRs.
4) A true "registry" is prohibited by
18Pa.C.S.§6111.4.
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legal acquisition?
I acquired a S&W Model 19 .357 revolver from a friend of mine about a year ago. We didn't do any transfer or go anywhere for documentation of the transactions. I'm am not even sure if he purchased the revolver or how he came to posses it.
I dont really have any concerns about possessing the firearm for target shooting, etc but if it ever comes to defending myself with it (home invasion, etc) I don't want to get brought up on some gun charge.
Does this acquisition sound legal?
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Re: legal acquisition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guerrillataktix
I acquired a S&W Model 19 .357 revolver from a friend of mine about a year ago. We didn't do any transfer or go anywhere for documentation of the transactions. I'm am not even sure if he purchased the revolver or how he came to posses it.
I dont really have any concerns about possessing the firearm for target shooting, etc but if it ever comes to defending myself with it (home invasion, etc) I don't want to get brought up on some gun charge.
Does this acquisition sound legal?
Between Pa. residents, Pa law (18Pa.C.S.6111) generally requires the seller to transfer the handgun to the buyer through a FFL where a Fed Form 4473 and Pa. PSP form SP4-113 is completed. There are exceptions for certain family members and other licensees, etc.
In my understanding, your friend violated 6111(c). I see no law you are in violation of for the possession. But IANAL.
You could always have it transferred now or ask an attorney for their opinion.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
It might be possible to be charged with conspiracy, even though the transfer laws only apply to the seller/transferor. Every sale requires a co-conspirator.
At the least, the gun could be seized.
There's also the possibility that the gun was stolen (especially where you don't have any idea how the friend came into possession.) The record of sale database would be a good defense for you, if you were charged with receiving stolen property. A surprising number of "friends" develop amnesia once criminal charges are in the air, looking for someone to settle on.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Thanks for the info. Best thing is probably go to a place to get it transferred legally. :)
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guerrillataktix
Thanks for the info. Best thing is probably go to a place to get it transferred legally. :)
Yep.. ..its generally best to always abide by the letter of the law. Well, unless you like funding folks like the gentleman above you and their gun, ammo, hookers, and alcohol addictions. :)
Abiding by the law allows you to put that money towards your own guns, booze, and broads.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
About buying a handgun without transfering it. I had a customer call me to say they had their guns stolen. They were recovered, however one was a Glock purchased as a private sale and never transfered. They did not want to pay the transfer fee to save money. The sheriff of Montgomery county would not give them the Glock since it was still in the other persons name, who now is deceased. The decendents of the person they bought it from and my customer are not on good terms with each other and they ended up not getting the Glock returned to them. It may pay in the long run to transfer the handgun.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Thanks for this thread! Thanks for making it simple to understand!
I'm thinking about buying a used shotgun in a private sale...
I was reading the PA code & getting confused!
I read:
(a) Time and manner of delivery.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser or transferee thereof until 48 hours shall have elapsed from the time of the application for the purchase thereof, and, when delivered, the firearm shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded.
(2) Thirty days after publication in the Pennsylvania Bulletin that the Instantaneous Criminal History Records Check System has been established in accordance with the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103- 159, 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.), no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser thereof until the provisions of this section have been satisfied, and, when delivered, the firearm shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded.
& thought ok so it looks like we do need to go thru an FFL & get a pics check
then I read:
(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.
&
(e) Nonapplicability of section.--This section shall not apply to the following:
(1) Any firearm manufactured on or before 1898.
(2) Any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock or percussion cap type of ignition system.
(3) Any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (1) if the replica:
(i) is not designed or redesigned to use rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition; or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional center fire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
&
(f) Application of section.--
(1) For the purposes of this section only, except as provided by paragraph (2), "firearm" shall mean any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of any such weapon.
And I thought yep sure does look like we do need to go thru an FFL!
Then I got to:
(2) The provisions contained in subsections (a) and (c) shall only apply to pistols or revolvers with a barrel length of less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length of less than 18 inches, any rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches or any firearm with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
& I went WTF? so now it seems I don't need to go thru an FFL?
& then I found this sticky & wow I could have saved myself all the confusion & want of a law degree! So thanks to the OP & PAFOA!!!!
after reading the statute I do have a related question however...
Now I know I must be wrong, but to me this part looks like it is saying that if you have a LTCF or are a cop, you don't need to go thru the pics check or fill out the forms or do anything for any transfer including handguns...
(3) The provisions contained in subsection (a) shall not apply to any law enforcement officer whose current identification as a law enforcement officer shall be construed as a valid license to carry a firearm or any person who possesses a valid license to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).
Since section a states:
no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser thereof until the provisions of this section have been satisfied,
wouldn't having subsection "a" not apply mean that the provisions of the entire section does not apply since "a" is referencing the need to satisfy the provisions of the entire section?
My head hurts now!
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Re: legal acquisition?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
guerrillataktix
I acquired a S&W Model 19 .357 revolver from a friend of mine about a year ago. We didn't do any transfer or go anywhere for documentation of the transactions. I'm am not even sure if he purchased the revolver or how he came to posses it.
I dont really have any concerns about possessing the firearm for target shooting, etc but if it ever comes to defending myself with it (home invasion, etc) I don't want to get brought up on some gun charge.
Does this acquisition sound legal?
Guerrilla you said that you acquired it,did you purchase or what? I would think of it as a long term loan and you should be good to go. I believe a loan to you is ok if you are not prohibited. If you murder someone it will be on him. Just kidding
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Kinda off track here, but their was mention of gun registration in the states of CA,NJ,NY,MD but i also wanted to add that in Clark County Nevada (the most populated county in NV (includes las vegas) all handguns must be registered and you must obtain blue cards for each and every handgun you own. Just though i'd pass the info along
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Hey Guys,
(Sorry if this has already been answered elsewhere.) I have just purchased my first AR15 (yes, Im stoked). I have several hand guns, but this is my first rifle. Can someone please tell me if I should have received any paperwork showing ownership of this rifle; such as a bill of sale or copy of the transfer into my name. Also, all of my handguns included the Ballistic round from the manufacturer. Please advise if I should have received this with my ar15 as well. Thanks for you input.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
If you bought it from a dealer (FFL) you should have a bill of sale from them (even if not more than a cash register receipt). The paperwork showing that it was sold to you is the BATFE Form 4473 (again if bought from a dealer) and the FFL keeps it. If you bought from a private party, there is no law that says that any paperwork is required. Take it out and have fun. Rifles do not have the fired round, only handguns (because some states require it to be turned into one of their police agencies).
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Thanks for the feedback. You put my mind at ease. I bought it from a private dealer at the VF gun show yesterday. He seems to have a good rep throughout this website; therefore, I wasnt too concerned but did want to be certain. Thanks again!!
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
I am a current resident of NY. I have a CC permit and a REGISTERED .40SW handgun. (Very hard to get BTW) I am moving into the Wilkes-Barre area and I just want to be crystal clear on gun ownership in PA. I know I need a permit to carry the pistol concealed and in a motor vehicle, but is there any conditions on me keeping the pistol in my home until I get a permit?
I guess what I am asking is can I bring my pistol from NY into PA, keep it at my house until such a time that I can get my PA CC permit?
Thanks for the help.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigdaddy27
I guess what I am asking is can I bring my pistol from NY into PA, keep it at my house until such a time that I can get my PA CC permit?
The answer is yes.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Bigdaddy27
I am a current resident of NY. I have a CC permit and a REGISTERED .40SW handgun. (Very hard to get BTW) I am moving into the Wilkes-Barre area and I just want to be crystal clear on gun ownership in PA. I know I need a permit to carry the pistol concealed and in a motor vehicle, but is there any conditions on me keeping the pistol in my home until I get a permit?
I guess what I am asking is can I bring my pistol from NY into PA, keep it at my house until such a time that I can get my PA CC permit?
Thanks for the help.
As mentioned...yes.
There is no ownership card or anything like that for guns and you do not need to "register" your guns that you bring to PA from NY...just bring 'em here and they are legal to possess...that's it.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
I was under the idea that Pennsylvania and many other states must destroy
registration documents after 30 days.
I am not sure about the Federal Government.
Any legal eagles out there that can shed light on this?
Gerry
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
There is NO registry in Pennsylvania. But there is a database that the state police maintain, on last known owners of handguns transferred within the commonwealth. The only reason the courts have not struck down this database for being an illegal registry is that the state police have testified that the database is inherently incomplete, due to not all handguns legally in the state being recorded via a transfer at an FFL (handguns can legally be brought into the state from someone moving into PA, also from nonresidents who are visiting, as well as handguns transferred between immediate family, and of course handguns which have been owned since before the transfer database existed).
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
puccini
I was under the idea that Pennsylvania and many other states must destroy registration documents after 30 days.
there are no registration documents to destroy.
the state police do maintain a database of handgun transfers. they get the data from the application/record of sale. they are supposed to destroy that data within 72 hours, but they don't.
somehow, the PA supreme court said they could keep doing it even though it is blatantly against state law.
not sure what you are referring to by the 30 days thing.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
OH,
I really love that kind of political crap.
It's illegal but SOMEHOW it's allowed to exist.
Lawyers and politicians arew ruining this country.
Gerry
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Does anyone have a link to the court documents & opinions that cover the PSP database?
The reference section on "case law" here is seriously lacking.
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
Quote:
Originally Posted by
IronSight
Does anyone have a link to the court documents & opinions that cover the PSP database?
The reference section on "case law" here is seriously lacking.
I believe the pertinent cases are:
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Re: About Gun "Registration" or Transfers in PA
This seems like a good spot to post my question:
Well, my grandpa recently passed away and his gun collection then became the property of my grandma. She then gave all the guns to mom, who let me and my and dad have any of the guns we wanted or were thought keeping. One of the guns I ended up with was his police issue revovler. I've searched around the internet and my understanding is that immediate family transfers do not have to be put in the "database". Is this correct? Also, if I don't transfer it will I get hasseled or anything by the police?