Gun rights and today’s election

Honestly, while the predicted elections results are not what many here may want, they are not a worst case scenario either.

1. Wolf may win, so it goes. As long as we can maintain control of the Pa house and senate gun rights are fine. That control has gotten shaky so it is important to keep pressuring legislators on gun bills, but I don’t think Wolf can hurt gun rights.

2. If things go as projected, Republicans will maintain control of the Senate. Of the house and Senate the Senate is more important imo. If Democrats gained control of the Senate, none of Trumps judicial picks would get through and the benefits of the main reason many voted for Trump would stop. This is especially important if something happens to Ginsberg in the next year.

Prediction........ The Supreme Court and judges will be the main issue in 2020. Every candidate will have a list of judges to replace Ginsberg and it will be the Ginsberg election.

3. If things go as projected, Democrats will have the house. They will be a thorn in Trumps side, but he can handle that. Impeachment or whatever, the Democrats will overplay their hand and take it too far probably bolstering Trumps chances in 2020. Under Ryan they were not getting much accomplished anyway. Even though Republicans controlled the Senate and House, they did not have enough control to get much legislation done. The house will not be able to get any anti legislation through the Senate, and even if they somehow did, Trump can/will veto it.

Basically other than judges, we have gridlock..... that’s not always bad, and is not the worst case scenario.

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Originally Posted by internet troll

Honestly, while the predicted elections results are not what many here may want, they are not a worst case scenario either.

1. Wolf may win, so it goes. As long as we can maintain control of the Pa house and senate gun rights are fine. That control has gotten shaky so it is important to keep pressuring legislators on gun bills, but I don’t think Wolf can hurt gun rights.

2. If things go as projected, Republicans will maintain control of the Senate. Of the house and Senate the Senate is more important imo. If Democrats gained control of the Senate, none of Trumps judicial picks would get through and the benefits of the main reason many voted for Trump would stop. This is especially important if something happens to Ginsberg in the next year.

Prediction........ The Supreme Court and judges will be the main issue in 2020. Every candidate will have a list of judges to replace Ginsberg and it will be the Ginsberg election.

3. If things go as projected, Democrats will have the house. They will be a thorn in Trumps side, but he can handle that. Impeachment or whatever, the Democrats will overplay their hand and take it too far probably bolstering Trumps chances in 2020. Under Ryan they were not getting much accomplished anyway. Even though Republicans controlled the Senate and House, they did not have enough control to get much legislation done. The house will not be able to get any anti legislation through the Senate, and even if they somehow did, Trump can/will veto it.

Basically other than judges, we have gridlock..... that’s not always bad, and is not the worst case scenario.

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Wolf winning isn't my concern. The 2020 census is. Our control of the PA house and senate will be in jeopardy.

The house going to the dems will help Trump in 2020, IMO. 2 years of gridlock and several impeachment attempts will not go the way they think it will.

Senate is most important. It's all about the courts for me. In that respect, this election is still MAGA.

But I want more cat hats and lib tears.

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Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

Wolf winning isn't my concern. The 2020 census is. Our control of the PA house and senate will be in jeopardy.

The house going to the dems will help Trump in 2020, IMO. 2 years of gridlock and several impeachment attempts will not go the way they think it will.

Senate is most important. It's all about the courts for me. In that respect, this election is still MAGA.

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Yep, it sucks that the judiciary has become such an important factor in an election, but so it goes. For now it benefits the 2nd. I still shudder thinking about what would be happening to the judiciary and the appointment of anti 2nd judges if Hillary won and Trump lost.

Judges are the most important right now . On the state level I do not like how pa is leaning further left . At least my “new” district went red with Mueser over Wolff but the rest of the “newly drawn districts” are going the exact way the PA Supreme Court wanted them to go ...overall I’m happy with the senate pick ups but disappointed in the house and the sheeple in PA .

Looks like Florida will stay Red and Georgia too at the gubernatorial level.

And all of Hollywierds carpetbagging in Texas did them no good.

Long 2 years ahead.

It could have been much worse, but it was still VERY BAD. PA is going the way of the rest of the Northeast as our demographics change, and urban areas grow. All suburbs are now solidly Democrat which is a game changer.

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Originally Posted by Pilot321

It could have been much worse, but it was still VERY BAD. PA is going the way of the rest of the Northeast as our demographics change, and urban areas grow. All suburbs are now solidly Democrat which is a game changer.

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At least your state constitution has something guaranteeing 2A rights.

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Originally Posted by lts1ow

At least your state constitution has something guaranteeing 2A rights.

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Totally meaningless, as is the Federal 2A which has been illegally violated, and illegal laws upheld by corrupt courts since the Sullivan Act in 1911. They can turn "Reasonable Restrictions" into total bans, and confiscations. We've seen it before on the Local, State and Federal level.

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Originally Posted by internet troll

Honestly, while the predicted elections results are not what many here may want, they are not a worst case scenario either.

1. Wolf may win, so it goes. As long as we can maintain control of the Pa house and senate gun rights are fine. That control has gotten shaky so it is important to keep pressuring legislators on gun bills, but I don’t think Wolf can hurt gun rights.
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Not so sure I agree with this part. Remember HB2060 only one month ago. Some on our side like Metcalfe & Saccone fought hard but could not overcome the pressure from leadership to support it. Yes it was election time and RINOs needed party money to fight contested races, but the reality is that when GOP leadership demands a vote, "or else" they usually get it.

So, I'm not at all comfortable that our gun rights are fine. (e.g., red flag law, elimination of private transfers, etc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sNiklO506A

Another Two years of Obstructionism from the left ,Thats what I see !

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Originally Posted by longcall911

Not so sure I agree with this part. Remember HB2060 only one month ago. Some on our side like Metcalfe & Saccone fought hard but could not overcome the pressure from leadership to support it. Yes it was election time and RINOs needed party money to fight contested races, but the reality is that when GOP leadership demands a vote, "or else" they usually get it.

So, I'm not at all comfortable that our gun rights are fine. (e.g., red flag law, elimination of private transfers, etc)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sNiklO506A

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Fair point and one I had in the back of my mind and was the reason why I said things have gotten shaky. I was mainly speaking in reference to Wolf. I should have said not worse than they were before the election.

As it is, if Wolf does call for new gun control, Republicans still have enough control of the house and senate to counter him. As for any gun control Republicans bring up or sponsor, shame on them..... and shame on gun owners for not holding their feet to the fire. You do your part, we need a lot more to step up at least with calls and letters.

We need to start winning the culture. Every one here take urban/suburban people shootjng. Be visible and vocal.

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Originally Posted by Yellowfin

We need to start winning the culture. Every one here take urban/suburban people shootjng. Be visible and vocal.

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a good idea;)

My district has gone blue. I've been working as hard as I can to get my house fixed up and hopefully on the market by spring or early summer. I'm currently looking at red districts to move to. I cannot live in a district where most of the people are freeloaders and a few producers pay for it all.

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Originally Posted by JenniferG

My district has gone blue. I've been working as hard as I can to get my house fixed up and hopefully on the market by spring or early summer. I'm currently looking at red districts to move to. I cannot live in a district where most of the people are freeloaders and a few producers pay for it all.

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The entire County is going Blue due to the over development going on.

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Originally Posted by lts1ow

At least your state constitution has something guaranteeing 2A rights.

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A copy of a post I made in another thread:

OK people, here is the reality: (from Shira Goodman)

CeaseFirePA

Gun violence prevention was on the ballot and we won

Together, we put gun violence prevention front and center, and the people of Pennsylvania proved this is a voting issue. The results will have a major impact on gun violence prevention policy at the state and federal levels.

Reelecting Governor Tom Wolf and Senator Bob Casey were critical for our movement, and we have made serious gains in the Pennsylvania legislature. We have elected five new Senators, all of whom are strong gun violence prevention advocates: Maria Collette, Steve Santarsiero, Katie Muth, Tim Kearney and Lindsey Williams. In the House of Representatives, we have many new partners as well: Joe Ciresi, Elizabeth Hanbidge, Joe Webster, Dan Williams, Danielle Friel Otten, Jennifer O'Mara, Joe Hohenstein, Pam Hacker, Steve Malagari, Wendy Ullman, Melissa Shusterman, Christina Sappey, Mike Zabel, Kristine Howard, and Malcolm Kenyatta. We are excited to work with all of these legislators, as well as our friends returning for new terms, to enact stronger laws for Pennsylvania.

This year, CeaseFirePA registered 1,000 new voters, and CeaseFire Pennsylvania reached almost 50,000 voters who often skip midterm elections to remind them that gun violence prevention was on the ballot. The CeaseFirePA PAC sent 42,000 pieces of mail, called 25,000 voters, and funded digital ads that reached 200,000 voters. Our messaging drove support for candidates who pledged to work for our gun violence prevention agenda, helped ensure many open seats were won by candidates who support the gun violence prevention agenda, and helped defeat incumbents who had taken dangerous pro-gun lobby votes.

Gun violence prevention is always on the ballot. This year, high numbers of Pennsylvanians made it a critical voting issue, and the results bear that out. You sent a message that our elected officials must be on the right side of this issue and stand up for a safer Pennsylvania.

Thank you.


Donate Now ›

CeaseFirePA
P..O. Box 60095
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102
215-923-3151
info@ceasefirepa.org

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Originally Posted by stainless

A copy of a post I made in another thread:

OK people, here is the reality: (from Shira Goodman)

CeaseFirePA

Gun violence prevention was on the ballot and we won

Together, we put gun violence prevention front and center, and the people of Pennsylvania proved this is a voting issue. The results will have a major impact on gun violence prevention policy at the state and federal levels.

Reelecting Governor Tom Wolf and Senator Bob Casey were critical for our movement, and we have made serious gains in the Pennsylvania legislature. We have elected five new Senators, all of whom are strong gun violence prevention advocates: Maria Collette, Steve Santarsiero, Katie Muth, Tim Kearney and Lindsey Williams. In the House of Representatives, we have many new partners as well: Joe Ciresi, Elizabeth Hanbidge, Joe Webster, Dan Williams, Danielle Friel Otten, Jennifer O'Mara, Joe Hohenstein, Pam Hacker, Steve Malagari, Wendy Ullman, Melissa Shusterman, Christina Sappey, Mike Zabel, Kristine Howard, and Malcolm Kenyatta. We are excited to work with all of these legislators, as well as our friends returning for new terms, to enact stronger laws for Pennsylvania.

This year, CeaseFirePA registered 1,000 new voters, and CeaseFire Pennsylvania reached almost 50,000 voters who often skip midterm elections to remind them that gun violence prevention was on the ballot. The CeaseFirePA PAC sent 42,000 pieces of mail, called 25,000 voters, and funded digital ads that reached 200,000 voters. Our messaging drove support for candidates who pledged to work for our gun violence prevention agenda, helped ensure many open seats were won by candidates who support the gun violence prevention agenda, and helped defeat incumbents who had taken dangerous pro-gun lobby votes.

Gun violence prevention is always on the ballot. This year, high numbers of Pennsylvanians made it a critical voting issue, and the results bear that out. You sent a message that our elected officials must be on the right side of this issue and stand up for a safer Pennsylvania.

Thank you.


Donate Now ›

CeaseFirePA
P..O. Box 60095
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19102
215-923-3151
info@ceasefirepa.org

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In other words it's time to ban guns and confiscate them.

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Originally Posted by JenniferG

In other words it's time to ban guns and confiscate them.

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that is the end goal.

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Originally Posted by lts1ow

At least your state constitution has something guaranteeing 2A rights.

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Which the Democrats in legislature and PA's judicial system seems to ignore routinely with impunity!

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Originally Posted by JenniferG

In other words it's time to ban guns and confiscate them.

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It's time to put an end to Ceasefire. Drive them out of the state. File charges against them as a hate group, sue them for defamation, libel, and slander which they are routinely guilty of. Deny them resources. Impose social sanctions. Basically make them not want to have a toe within our borders.

Why hasn't all that been done already?

Forgive my re-post, but maybe it is time to give this some serious consideration.....

After careful consideration of the "facts and fantasies" being presented recently in the media concerning gun rights, I would agree perhaps it is truly time for change.
The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens that go about their everyday business without the general public even knowing they are gun owners or supporters of the Second Amendment. To a large extent, this has been our goal, "no one needs to know".

Here is the rub.... to the media, politicians (local, state, and federal) and the general public we are a nameless, faceless group. As a group we don't stage sit-ins, we don't plan million person marches, we don't burn flags or pull down monuments. We exist under the radar. We do an excellent job not letting the media, politicians and general public confront the fact we are parents, grandparents, teachers, doctors, construction workers, school bus drivers, you know...average hard working citizens choosing to exercise a Constitutional right.

Maybe we need a change, become more visible, become more vocal. Instead of being on the defensive to protect gun rights move to the offensive and profess gun rights.
Last edited by jgl; February 27th, 2018 at 10:43 PM.

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Originally Posted by Yellowfin

It's time to put an end to Ceasefire. Drive them out of the state. File charges against them as a hate group, sue them for defamation, libel, and slander which they are routinely guilty of. Deny them resources. Impose social sanctions. Basically make them not want to have a toe within our borders.

Why hasn't all that been done already?

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Exactly who is going to file charges and fund a case, assuming some DA is willing to move it forward? You understand that this is a Bloomberg organization right? That means endless money and lawyers. How do we fight against that?

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Originally Posted by jgl

Forgive my re-post, but maybe it is time to give this some serious consideration.....

After careful consideration of the "facts and fantasies" being presented recently in the media concerning gun rights, I would agree perhaps it is truly time for change.
The overwhelming majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens that go about their everyday business without the general public even knowing they are gun owners or supporters of the Second Amendment. To a large extent, this has been our goal, "no one needs to know".

Here is the rub.... to the media, politicians (local, state, and federal) and the general public we are a nameless, faceless group. As a group we don't stage sit-ins, we don't plan million person marches, we don't burn flags or pull down monuments. We exist under the radar. We do an excellent job not letting the media, politicians and general public confront the fact we are parents, grandparents, teachers, doctors, construction workers, school bus drivers, you know...average hard working citizens choosing to exercise a Constitutional right.

Maybe we need a change, become more visible, become more vocal. Instead of being on the defensive to protect gun rights move to the offensive and profess gun rights.
Last edited by jgl; February 27th, 2018 at 10:43 PM.

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We need to be able to fill the halls of the Capitol on short notice. This has been discussed in other threads. What no one gets to is a solution.

Well, I run multiple text messaging services. What if we had a web page where you could enter your cell phone as someone generally willing to go to Harrisburg on 24 hrs notice, depending on the specifics that day. Would you be willing to receive occasional texts calling for us to muster with a specific date/time/location? If we could get 100+ people to respond and to walk the halls with t-shirts with a specific message "I am a gun owner and I vote" or similar, we could possibly grow the group to one that might make a difference.

If there is sufficient interest, I'll build the page and provide the service. (for an example, see SupportTheAgenda.com)

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Originally Posted by longcall911

We need to be able to fill the halls of the Capitol on short notice. This has been discussed in other threads. What no one gets to is a solution.

Well, I run multiple text messaging services. What if we had a web page where you could enter your cell phone as someone generally willing to go to Harrisburg on 24 hrs notice, depending on the specifics that day. Would you be willing to receive occasional texts calling for us to muster with a specific date/time/location? If we could get 100+ people to respond and to walk the halls with t-shirts with a specific message "I am a gun owner and I vote" or similar, we could possibly grow the group to one that might make a difference.

If there is sufficient interest, I'll build the page and provide the service. (for an example, see SupportTheAgenda.com)

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I think this is a good idea if incorporated into a more comprehensive plan.
Purely voluntary spontaneity is extremely inconsistent when dealing with people that have pressing responsibilities of family and job.

I do think it would work well if partnered with a designated rotation of core 2A volunteers scheduled to be in the Capitol 60 days per year.
It allows for a scheduled designated 2A volunteer to be on location to provide detail and changing logistics to the group.
It allows for a designated coordinator to keep the group informed as to how many responded, how many showed, where to go and why, etc.

We have interest in setting up the 2A rotation in the Capitol.
We have interest in setting up funding for a 2A anchor lobbyist.

The core rotation of scheduled 2A volunteers would orbit the 2A anchor lobbyist.
The 2A text message volunteers would augment the scheduled 2A core volunteers already on the ground.

If done that way I think it would work really well.
I would have no problem donating $50-$100 a year to employ a 2A lobbyist to anchor this effort.
If 100 guys here feel the same that's $10,000 of funding, if 1000 guys here feel the same that's $100,000 to fund our 2A anchor lobbyist.

I think $100 a year is well worth spending to protect the 2A in PA.
If the same amount of people that showed up at the annual 2A rally agree, then we can get this up and running immediately.

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Originally Posted by JenniferG

My district has gone blue. I've been working as hard as I can to get my house fixed up and hopefully on the market by spring or early summer. I'm currently looking at red districts to move to. I cannot live in a district where most of the people are freeloaders and a few producers pay for it all.

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Eric Roe was the first Republican to lose my district 9158) since the districts were formed in 1969. He tried to act like a Democrat (a mailer bragging about being a "Prius Republican" and an election eve TV ad bragging about supporting universal background checks and other gun control). When alpacaheat, jhaydeno, Bernchy (I think) and a few others from here sat down with him, I pointed out that it was a strategy that failed for his mentor Dan Truitt, who was the first Republican to ever lose his district in 2016. Both didtricts were heavily gerrymandered Republican. The 2012 regerrymandering was designed to help Truitt at the expense of Steve Barrar in 160, who was considered a solid lock. Steve gave us a few scares, but when it was time to vote, he always did the right thing for us. He lost this time because of the steady influx of idjits into his district.

You can move to a red district, but you will still be paying for freeloaders in the cesspools that bookend our state.

NRATV - Big Wins for Gun Ownership in Midterms


Video:
https://www.nratv.com/videos/stinchf...tent=body&amp=


Second Amendment attorney, Guy Relford, joins the program to discuss the results of the midterm elections in Indiana and across the country. Guy shares some of the biggest wins for gun rights and President Donald Trump as his campaigning efforts paid off in states across the country.

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Originally Posted by Pilot321

The entire County is going Blue due to the over development going on.

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I my small township, two mcmansion developments were approved in the late 90's, and new zoning and land development ordinances were passed in 1999 that has completely shut down development. One of them has been a constant source of complaints about farmers running equipment through the night in the fall and hunters. They have disrupted board of supervisors meetings when their demands aren't met. The supervisors approved a small home office for a longtime resident optometrist and these morons demanded that all of her patients be screened for pedophelia. They acted like ANTIFA over this at a couple of supervisors meetings, and there are rumors that some of the local farm boys had a Come to Jesus chat with some of them. Their kids are just turning 18 now, and we are seeing the result in our elections.

So far they have not tried to run a candidate for supervisor. In the meantime, there is plenty of money and tax breaks available to help anyone who wants to put his property into conservation. This has been a winning strategy here so far, as a major portion of large tracts are going that way. Virtually all are in the clean and green program, which adds financial penalties to development. All of the property in the township is eased for fox hunting, and the wealthy and politically connected fox hunters are very quick to protect their playground (they are not a problem at all, and maintain excellent relations with the landowners). I've heard heads exploding in the developments when the hounds go through, but the hunters are respectful and do not follow them over lawns there.

I imagine that the idjits will eventually take over, but it won't happen in this township in what's left of my lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Berncly

I would have no problem donating $50-$100 a year to employ a 2A lobbyist to anchor this effort.
If 100 guys here feel the same that's $10,000 of funding, if 1000 guys here feel the same that's $100,000 to fund our 2A anchor lobbyist.

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Let me be the first to apply for that job.

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Originally Posted by Gripsafety

Let me be the first to apply for that job.

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I'm talking about bringing in a professional 2A lobbyist on loan from the NRA or GOA.
I should have been more specific.

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Originally Posted by Berncly

I'm talking about bringing in a professional 2A lobbyist on loan from the NRA or GOA.
I should have been more specific.

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I was thinking about that this week...how we need to start countering the Bloomberg pros. We work, we can't show up whenever summoned every time. We need someone who can not only show up, but get groups of us or someone in our place to fight for us.

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Originally Posted by alpacaheat

I was thinking about that this week...how we need to start countering the Bloomberg pros. We work, we can't show up whenever summoned every time. We need someone who can not only show up, but get groups of us or someone in our place to fight for us.

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Yes.
A professional 2A lobbyist in Harrisburg 60 days per year.
A rotation of designated 2A volunteers to orbit the professional.
And an outer ring of text message 2A volunteers to come when called if possible.

It could work really well and change the status quo in the Capitol.

It's doable and it's affordable.
All we need is for guys and gals here to be willing to chip in $100 per year, and for those that can to volunteer their time in Harrisburg a few days per year.

The idea of 100 people walking the halls with t-shirts that have a specific message is designed to simply counter the actions on the Left, and to do so at very low cost.

If you want to "solve the problem" it is far more complex than having a lobbyist. It starts with the fact that Philly & Pittsburgh have such large populations that are democrat strongholds. Add to that, the power of democrat unions and you have overwhelming political power driving the legislative agenda.

Here's an example on the national level:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/gun-...-defy-nra.html

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Originally Posted by longcall911

The idea of 100 people walking the halls with t-shirts that have a specific message is designed to simply counter the actions on the Left, and to do so at very low cost.

If you want to "solve the problem" it is far more complex than having a lobbyist. It starts with the fact that Philly & Pittsburgh have such large populations that are democrat strongholds. Add to that, the power of democrat unions and you have overwhelming political power driving the legislative agenda.

Here's an example on the national level:

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/09/gun-...-defy-nra.html

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I'm not seeing anything that indicates that doing an anchor lobbyist surrounded by 2 rings of volunteers is a bad idea.
Combined with your text message concept and the expansion of your gun shop flier concept I think it would yield real results.
Certainly there is more that can be done, but I think it would be a very good start and a way to lay the foundation for future concepts.
Once up and running other concepts could be added on when needed.

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Originally Posted by Berncly

I'm not seeing anything that indicates that doing an anchor lobbyist surrounded by 2 rings of volunteers is a bad idea.
Combined with your text message concept and the expansion of your gun shop flier concept I think it would yield real results.
Certainly there is more that can be done, but I think it would be a very good start and a way to lay the foundation for future concepts.
Once up and running other concepts could be added on when needed.

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It's not a bad idea, but honestly, I don't see it as viable. Who would raise this $100k? Who holds the money? What keeps that person from skipping town? If a pro-lobbyist is interested, to whom is s/he accountable? If they suck, how would we know? Who would fire him/her? Who is this lobbyist representing, PAFOA, a bunch of bulletin board members? What leverage does this lobbyist have because s/he is not representing a specific organization with large numbers of paid members in any house rep's district. The only leverage a lobbyist has is "my organization's members got you elected, we'll replace you just as quick".

What power would a $100k lobbyist have in a case like hb2060 where R's were told they needed to support this bill on a "protect woman from abuse" basis or else loose all party money as they head into a tough election year?

In my view, the problem is not the lack of a lobbyist. It is instead the fact that SE PA is solid Democrat and keeps electing gun-grabbers from house reps to Governor. No matter what we do, nothing will change if we don't change that dynamic. I'm not saying that I have the answers, but IMO the correct solution begins with an accurate analysis of the problem. Maybe it is focusing on just one or two key districts in SE PA and demonstrating routinely to bring attention to that rep's gun-grabbing support. That may not be the best idea, but the point is that focusing our attention on the source of the problem (Philly area) is likely what we need to figure out.