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I have been looking on other forums and rumors are everywhere that it is discontinued. But checking the h&k website I find the mk23 still listed. To me common sense would say if a company stopped producing something, they would also stop advertising for it. I want this gun eventually and I want it new. Can anyone elaborate as to whether the mk23 is or is not discontinued?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heckler_%26_Koch_Mark_23
My guess is that they'll sell off whatever stock they have left.Quote:
As of 28 July 2010, Heckler & Koch has ceased production of the Mark 23.
Don't try to apply too much common sense - It's HK. They have a history of stuff like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by FCRPhila
For instance, the P7M8 was "discontinued" in 2005, then some were made in 2006, then some more in 2007, IIRC... There are even P7M8's w/ serial numbers later than those that are marked "1 of 500" that came with a "certificate of authenticity" attesting to them being the last run ever made... And lots of people who who paid a premium for one of those "last of the last P7M8's" were pissed...
Anything's possible - But if you want a truly NIB MK23, my advice is to grab one now, or pay an even more ridiculous price down the road from a price-gouger or "collector"...
Regards,
Bones
If I had $1700 lying around I'd jump on one now while I can.
I've heard the same. dont go off H&K's website, its never up to date/wrong info, whatever. That said, I love H&K and I never really saw the appeal in the MK23. Kinda like the DE .50, I could think of alot better things to do with that kinda cash (les baer or semi custom 1911 or a SIG 556 swat, just a couple of my wants, 2 pistols + ammo, hell lots of other stuff ) . They should call it the USP-S for super cuz thats basically what it is. Its big, beefy as hell, and a price to match. Add a suppressor and NFA fees for the way it was meant to be run and your talkin like damn near 3 g's, good grief. Sure I'd love one too as an H&K fan but not that bad. Guess you better bag the P250 and 238 and start savin your pennies. JJ :) . Well thats my take
Back in the late 1990s they claimed and advertised that only 1000 Mark 23 pistols would be made...then they rasied it to 2000...then they offered them in other colors. In the end they made as many as they could to hekp pay for the R&D.
Another lie was the P7 which was supposed to be discontinued when the USP came out in the early 1990s...they kept popping them out.
Let's not kid around. Who is going to pay $2,300.00 for a polymer pistol? Few at best, damn few in fact. I'm not trying to bash H&K, I just bought a new USP 9 MM a few weeks ago, and so far I really like it. With that said the gun cost me $800.00 which is about 25% more than a comparable Glock. That is a livable difference. But when you push the price over 2 grand, it simply isn't worth it, except for someone who is absolutely in love with H&K's, and has the kind of money to make a purchase like that trivial.
I know the Mark 23 is (was), built to a very high accuracy standard, more so than Glocks and USP's, but that in itself doesn't justify it's cost. You can purchase a hand fit Les Baer 1911 that will guarantee 1" groups at 25 yards for less than that price. What few military contracts it garnered weren't enough to warrant it's continued production. In short the gun was priced out of it's own market for what it offered. $2,300.00 will buy a lot more gun than the Mark 23. Bill T.
While a lot of this is true, the Mark 23 wasn't JUST the pistol, it was the whole system...light, laser, suppressor, etc for the military of course, not civilians. When they removed that stuff for civilians they should have also removed half the price.Quote:
Originally Posted by billt
According to HK, production of the Mark23 stopped. This was posted by HK Customer Service on their website.
The Mark23, contrary to what some may think, was the precursor to the USP line. HK took what they learned from the Mk23 project and applied it to create the USP line. Just as they took the USP line, and tinkered to give us the P2000 and from the P2000, the P30 and HK45's.
The Mark23 is more than just a .45 pistol. Yes, you can buy a custom 1911 for the price of a Mark23, but your custom 1911 generally will not have interchangeable parts with someone else's custom 1911, it will not come with a threaded barrel (generally), it will not be virtually indestructible like Mark23, and it will not be considered an Offensive Handgun.
Here is a post that Frogman (a very well known and respected SEAL who is the moderator of the SEAL forums at Tacticalforums) made in reference to the Mk23 when pressed about it's use.
(Start of Frogman post)
You can’t really tell the Mk 23 story without telling parts of the Beretta and SIG story, as well. The Beretta 92F was largely the result of a specific SEAL Team urging Beretta to modify a few things with the standard 92 for the unit’s use. Things like moving the magazine release from the butt to the frame, re-shaping the trigger guard…etc. This particular SEAL Team had Beretta 92F’s before the U.S. military ever went to the “M9”. During the testing for the new U.S. standard issue sidearm SIG actually slightly outperformed the Beretta. I was told that it wasn’t chosen because Beretta slightly beat the price point over SIG. The real answer is probably a bit more complicated than that, but Beretta did eventually win . The trials lasted a long time during which life went on in the Teams…until Berettas starting failing in the SEAL Teams. I remember those days well. The Teams had a lot of loyalty to the pistol, but all of that ended when Beretta publicly accused the Teams of routinely firing “hot” ammo through the guns. Not a true statement. The Teams dropped the Beretta and were authorized to purchase an “interim” handgun to fill the bill until the ink was dry on the government standard sidearm contract. The Teams bought SIGs and began a loyalty o that system which persists even still.
It wasn’t too long before Army SOF began to sour on the Beretta. Their problem was that they already had M1911A1’s on their TOA&E. The military being what it is, you can only have one caliber of a particular type of like equipment. Army SOF began to work the issue by conceptualizing an “Offensive Handgun” different in definition and .45 ACP. This was just post Desert Storm. SEAL SIGs had been in inventory for 2-3 years and folks were starting to recall that the P226 was only an “interim” buy. Someone was caught using improper justification for a second purchase of SIGs by Congress. During the dust-up which followed Army SOF approached Navy SOF through Crane with the “Offensive Handgun” concept. The Navy could take the lead on the project and if it came off both the Army and Navy SOF would enjoy a new .45 cal handgun. The “Offensive Handgun” project felt the influences of many opinionated pistoleros. A long list of features was drawn up.
Eventually both Colt and HK submitted Phase One Prototypes for endurance testing. I was actually one of the SEALs who had to fire 30,000 rounds through a Colt and HK pistol over the course of a week in 1994 and document every failure. Not as fun as you might think.
We also took the revamped (Phase Two) prototypes to Rogers’ Shooting School for testing (that was fun) in early 1995. I and several other SEAL Team “bullet heads” went to the testing with malice in our hearts not only for the gun but the very concept of the gun. Our intent was to shoot it better than anyone else and then slam it in the critiques.
The gun grew on us haters. That simple. It was dead accurate, big- yes, but manageable. With a suppressor on it is unlike any other handgun.
It was finally issued around 1996 or so. I used it in winter warfare a lot, for over the beach work and diving. I preferred my SIG for assaults. Later in my career I did a lot more diving and over the beach work. The Mk 23 was awesome at that stuff. It is the best weapon to have in a hide site when lying up with a Team in a concealed position. You can bring it to bear day or night on anyone sneaking up on you. It is accurate even after blowing through your hide site material, the suppressor is pretty quiet and the LAM lets you get away with a lot. I used it and trained many other SEALs to use it very capably. The SEAL Teams that did not dive as much as, say, SDV Teams neglected their Mk 23’s. The Mk 23’s strengths were not as obvious to those guys who weren’t swimming and diving all the time. Last year a message came out to turn in all Mk 23’s to Crane. At least one SDV Team flatly refused. A few other Teams suddenly decided they should keep a “few”. So those at NAVSPECWARCOM who had sent the message in the first place restricted the expenditure of .45 ammo, instead. SDV Teams now have Mk 23s but no ammo allowance. They even ordered S&W 686’s from Crane to outfit their guys because a SIG will not survive a long dive very well. I know of a handful of guys who have taken their issue Mk 23’s overseas since the ammo cut-off because they know they can get the ammo there and have actually carried them in missions far from the water.
That’s the story in nutshell. What else would you like to know?
Frogman
---- End of Post
---- Begin another post by Frogman.
The Mk 23 is actually a really good weapon. Lot's of guys carry them in the filed for E&E with the suppressor on them somewhere, too. It is big, so what? I use mine in a pouch or holster. When I want to tuck a pistol away out of sight, I use one of the SIGs."
"There are plenty of former and current SEALs who will say something negative about the Mk 23. So what? The fact is there are plenty of current SEALs using the weapon effectively, and sometimes exclusively (mission dependant).
The Mk 23 can actually be point shot (focus on the target, not front sight) quite effectively and quickly out to 25 yards (on 12"X14" chest plates) with the suppressor on. I don't know of any other habdgun that is that accurate utilizing this technique.
I mentioned some of this on the HKPRO Forum while this forum was down. Modern SEALs sometimes have to use pistols as a primary weapon. The Mk 23 is great for this."
----- End of Post
Frogman also indicated that the Mk23 was used in cave clearing in Afghanistan.
Also, G3Kurz (who works or worked for HK) has this to say about destroying a Mk23 Slide.
"It is very unlikely that any "Code F" classified MK23's would be released to the surplus or commecial world. Normally they are destroyed. It is also hard to destroy a MK23 slide - the testers tried to do so during the PHII testing and gave up on two guns after firing more than 30,000 rounds of Proof ammo (30% higher then +P)."
So, my point is that while a Mark23 is expensive and large, it's a very well engineered pistol for what it was designed for. This is not to say it's the greatest pistol, but it's to show how to properly evaluate it given why it was designed.
all i can say is, i never heard of special forces using this gun. its reallllly big, i think if you truely considered this gun, get the usp tactical, its still big, but not ridiculously big, and you will save enough money where you can get a suppressor also.
also that was a great read above. so ultimately they stopped using it because....?
or are they still using it?
i know they are using sigs currently.