looking to buy my first silencer, i live in York. Without setting up a trust, llc etc.....what do i need to do...what form do i need the sheriff or DA to sign?
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looking to buy my first silencer, i live in York. Without setting up a trust, llc etc.....what do i need to do...what form do i need the sheriff or DA to sign?
The seller will hand you a Form 4 for a $200 tax transfer, 2 copies. You'll need 2 passport type pics, and a signature from your chief law enforcement officer, usually the chief of police or sheriff. Add a certificate that talks about your citizenship, and 2 fingerprint cards.
I just did this last week. Bought one through Freedom Armory. They will give you all required paperwork and walk you through exactly what you need to have. You bring it back to the shop and they send it off.
If buying from an individual I'm not sure of the process but its similar.
You can also go the trust route even easier in my opinion. People use the Quicken Willmaker program which can setup a trust for you in about a half hour. I'm sure people will chime in that you should pay the $600+ to have a lawyer draft up a trust for you, but there's literally thousands of posts about people having no problem with the Quicken trust paperwork years and years later.
This also saves you from A.) Getting fingerprinted (which I have a problem with getting fingerprinted, and your prints staying on file forever, when you've committed no crime). B.) Having to submit photographs of yourself. C.) Having to track down your sheriff and having him sign the paperwork.
People also think trusts get processed quicker than individual applications, but for me it's always taken 6 months (nearly to the day) which is standard processing time.
Trusts actually take longer to process, because somebody has to review the trust documents and make a preliminary guess as to whether they're valid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dochartaigh
The test of a trust is NOT whether the ATF examiner slaps a stamp on your Form. The test is whether it will protect you from a determined attack on the validity of your trust. A stamped Form 4 registering an NFA firearm to a trust that doesn't legally exist is not much of a defense, if you're charged with unlawful possession of an NFA firearm that's not registered to the human being in whose hands it was found.
I don't like trusts for this, but if you go with a trust, have a lawyer do it.
Your best option is almost always going to be personal ownership, you can't screw that up unless you become a prohibited person or move to another state without telling ATF. And you don't have to pay a lawyer a dime.
Next best in Pennsylvania is an LLC, those are pretty bulletproof, registered with the state, their existence doesn't hinge on jumping through any hoops. No annual fees, no taxes unless it makes money or collects sales taxes or otherwise engages in for-profit business.
For some, a corporation makes sense, but we like LLC's better because they have all of the protections and few of the formalities like Corporate Minutes, or Board Meetings. But corps are also listed with the state, so they are valid until the state goes through the formal process of trying to dissolve them.
Trusts are the least safe, there's a reason that the trust lawyers scare you about using a Quicken trust, they really are dangerous if you screw up. You can ignore the warnings if you wish, but there were plenty of warnings about the Akins Accelerator and about front grips on pistols, and until ATF went after them there was no problem. I have heard of zero verifiable cases of a trust being deemed invalid and the guns being forfeited, despite the claims of some; but that doesn't mean that the problem isn't real.
Keep it simple. Unless there's an overriding need for a trust, LLC, etc., it's cheaper, and simpler to go with personal ownership. The dealer you're buying your suppressor from should furnish you with all the paperwork you will need. I'm in York Co. too. Go to Walmart and get 2 passport photos taken (less than $10, fill out the papers/form (my dealer even had everything filled out and ready for my signature) and head to the Sheriff's office. I reccommend calling ahead just in case they've got something special going on. When I went in I had about a 30 minute wait to get my prints done, paid less than $20 for the printing and check fee, and was out the door. Two days later I received a very polite call from one of the Deputys telling me my forms were ready to be picked up. I know not all counties/sheriff's are as pro-2A are ours, but that's how it should work everywhere. Now for the hard part, waiting for the ATFE to get around to processing it. I've got another 2-3 months to go... Good luck.
York sherriff will sign off but i went to my local township police and the chief signed off, also got my prints done there. It was free and i picked up the paperwork the following day.