Second Amendment Second to None Rally in Harrisburg 2009

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Carnes

Off topic, but IMO people should have the right to make use of reasonable means of transportation on public roads. IIRC there are some states that have recognized driving ones car as a right.



IMO it would serve 2A supporters well not to dwell on this argument too much. I see this argument come up a lot, from a lot of different people, but I don't think it is a very strong argument. The argument is problematic because saying that a law is bad because criminals don't follow laws anyway conflicts with a number of laws that most people want to have even though criminals don't follow them. Saying that there should be no penalty for exceeding the speed limits because it will not stop the criminals/speeders from speeding is not a very strong argument.

Saying, "Criminals don't obey laws, therefore some law is no good" is an easy target for criticism. Whereas, saying, "At the end of the day, the only person who can take responsibility for your safety and security is yourself, thus laws that prevent you from being able to effectively provide for your own safety and security are bad," is a bit more difficult to criticize.

There are many stronger and more compelling arguments, and I try to focus on those when making a pro 2A case.

Actually, it's not a weak argument so long as one can articulate the difference between laws when someone counters with an argument like you just have. There's a difference between laws that impose penalties and those that prohibit or constrict the tools that can be used in committing crime.

Speed limits are good, so are laws against threatening someone with a gun.
Punishing someone for vehicular manslaughter when they've committed the crime is good, so is punishing someone for assault or murder when they've committed that act, with or without a gun.
Making a law that says no one may own an automobile, or that only police can drive automobiles on public streets, or that no one may own any type of vehicle except for the limited few that the government approves of in an effort to curb incidences of speeding, auto accidents and vehicular manslaughter isn't such a hot idea. Some of the very same parallels can be drawn between those things and many aspects of gun control (AWB's, carry prohibitions, one gun a month etc...). If you can explain the difference between malum in se and malum prohibitum, then I think you have a good shot.

But you have to have the time to fully expand on the issue in my opinion.

[wa3ra]

Do you know how many criminals end up in police custody?

Traffic stops. And in many of those cases, they are driving without insurance, with a suspended or revoked (or none at all) driver's license, and in many cases, in a STOLEN car. They don't care about the law.

Although it would be unusual not to report, there is no law compelling you to report a stolen car.

Nor should there be a law requiring you to report a stolen gun. Do you want the criminal element to know that you've had a gun stolen? Now, they either know that you may be armed, or they think that you may have other weapons on site that they can expropriate at their convenience.

[WhiteFeather]

For anyone that attended the April 21 rally and did not get a rally questionnaire attached is a copy that was handed out.

Please consider filling it out and sending it back to us -SOON.
I have to be presenting the preliminary After Action Report to the planning committee next week.

The answers help us evaluate what we can do better or improve things for the next rally.

We welcome your constructive ideas and suggestions for the 5th event, please add your comments as well in spaces provided.

Here was the message on the back of the team leader grouping map if you didn't get one or couldn't make it, contains the basic reasons for the rally and purpose.

Welcome to the 4th Annual
Second Amendment; Second to None
April 21 2009

Welcome to the 4th Annual Second Amendment; Second to None Rally! The following is an overview of the events planned for today and how you will participate.

9:00 am to 10 am - Register for the free gun raffle, receive a badge & be assigned to a team.
10 am to 11 am - The Rally in which you will enjoy a variety of excellent speakers.

11 am to 11:10 am – Gun Raffle

11:10 am to 3 pm (includes lunch break) - Immediately after the rally consult the map (overleaf) to find your team. Once assembled you will visit various representative’s offices. You will have the opportunity to politely express your views about gun control. You may or may not see your representative. What’s important is that the teams of gun owners visit their assigned Reps (203) or Senators (50) offices. Time permitting, you may have an opportunity to visit your Rep. afterwards. You have every right to talk with every elected official in this building; you pay their salary, benefits, office expenses and every vote they cast they still represent every Citizen in PA, not just constituents in their district.

Why is it important to actually talk with the Reps? If they don’t hear from you as a gun owner they assume they are doing a good job and may vote your rights away. Too many vote on bills they haven’t read. If you don’t complain they won’t know.
Remember: the squeaky wheel gets the grease!

Just as there are many PRO GUN elected officials who will always support your firearm rights. Some elected officials fear guns and/or their owners or are focused on asserting governmental power over you. There is little or nothing we could say or do to change their minds despite their oath of office to protect and defend the Constitution. There are a large number of Senators and Representatives in the middle that we are trying to reach. We need to alert them to the REAL problem: that of repeat violent criminals not being held accountable for their actions. This large majority of Reps decide what anti-gun laws get voted down or what pro-gun laws get passed. This group is the focus of the legislative visits. Who can better explain the flawed concept of gun control laws than gun owners like you? You will be provided packets that will help you organize your thoughts. You will have an opportunity to talk with undecided Representatives & Senators. This is the single most important thing you can do to protect your firearm rights

Please direct any questions to your team leaders.

Now, join us in the rotunda. Remember, have a good time. Thank you for coming.

Firearms Owners Against Crime – Holding Politicians accountable for their Actions and Votes and Teaching gun owners how important they are to the defense of their freedoms for nearly 20 years! Join with us and learn how YOU can make a difference TOO! http://www.foac-pac.org/

Thank again for returing your questionaires and attending the rally

[MrsMtnJack]

(editorial in beavercountytimes)
Never ever
ADVERTISEMENT

Published: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 8:15 AM EDT
The pro-gun rally in Harrisburg last week was an exercise in the obvious.

Hundreds of pro-gun advocates, led by the president of the National Rifle Association, showed up to remind state lawmakers who is pulling the strings and whose strings are being pulled.

It was an impressive combination of clout and cowering. (It’s not hard to figure out which adjective applied to gun backers and which applied to lawmakers.)

The whole thing fit neatly into the most recent category of trivial political pursuits that Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show with Jon Stewart” has come up with — “(Stuff) That’s Never Going to Happen.”

For goodness sakes, members of the state House last week demonstrated that they didn’t have the collective backbone to go after people who text-message or use cell phones while driving. Do you really think they’d take on gun owners who can and do vote based on that one issue?

Gun control in Pennsylvania? That’s most definitely “(Stuff) That’s Not Going to Happen.”


hmm seems to me they sure want to quiet some people down for something- don't they....?

[WhiteFeather]

Here is Kim Stolfer's May 09. legislative committee report to the Allegheny County Sportsman League

http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/n-le...ee_reports.htm

Gun Owners Rally In Harrisburg April 21st

Nearly 1,500 gun owners assembled in Harrisburg to demand greater respect for the ‘Right to Keep and Bear Arms’ and were joined by over 80 House and Senate members in this celebration of Freedom.

Second Amendment Attorney Stephen Halbrook along with National Pro-Gun leaders from the NRA, GOA, SAS and Statewide Pro-Gun leaders from the ACSL, FOAC, PFSC, PSA, USP, and many others spoke to the assembled gun owners about Freedom and the need to stand firm in the face of the daily calls for greater restrictions on the law abiding.

As has been the practice in years past, once the Rally was over the gun owners were organized into teams that visited every legislator in the PA House and Senate. Some of these teams were treated rudely and arrogantly by legislators and their staffs such as Rep. Dave Levdansky, Rep. Angel Cruz and Rep. Babette Josephs who should be recognized for special attention to their support for socialist attitudes and ignorance as to who they actually work for.

This rally could not have been a success without the tireless efforts of so many and we want to thank each and every one of them. Special merit goes to Rep. Metcalfe, George Romanoff (Ace Sporting Goods) for their support over the years for these very important events.

Kim also wanted to thank all of the PAFOA people that attended and helped out on this effort, without your help and attendance these events would not be possible.


IF anyone would like to do more to directly protect your firearm rights and be included or notified of the mini Harrisburg lobbying events. That always seem to come up on very short notice to fight or promote some specific piece of legislation.
Please send me a PM with your personal contact information
(email name phone number) . I will make sure you get your invitation to join with US, with the max possible advance time notice of the date that I get of Harrisburg legislative lobbying trips.

Right now we are talking about one in early june to gather more sponsor to HB 40 and move this to direct house vote
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...ease-read.html (Castle Doctrine HB 40 in 09 does anyone REALLY want this passed? If so please read)

[WhiteFeather]

Kim Stolfer wanted to give everyone an idea of what WE accomplished by having these legislative lobbying and interactive events.

Kim also want THANK everyone for their attendance and support of the cause of freedom and Constitutional rights.

The Rally had the desired effect plus more!



Leading up to the Rally it was clear that Democratic leadership did NOT want to show support and did everything in their power to hinder pro-gun democrats from attending by scheduling hearings and committee meetings and even a photo shoot for all legislators supposedly at 10:00 a.m. The final count of legislators rotating on and off the stage was approximately 81 between the Senators and House members. In addition Capitol Police informed Rep. Metcalfe that this rally was one of if not the biggest in the Rotunda rally’s ever. In fact Rep. Metcalfe has been asked to try and hold this outside due to space limitations (apparently they think this will only get larger too).



During my team leader duties I was stopped ‘many’ times by legislators that I know and told personally to PLEASE do NOT stop holding these rally’s. In varying ways I was told how it has helped them defend their positions with leadership of BOTH parties. They could not say enough good things about the demeanor of everyone and their enthusiasm and their dedication.



As for legislative issues a short list is below:

1. Rep. Metcalfe introduces legislation to provide for attorney’s fees and costs should a local community enact gun laws in defiance of state law, be sued by gun owners, and lose in court.

2. HB 40 (Castle Doctrine) Co-Sponsorship goes up nearly 50% from 57 to the current 98 with more coming.

3. Senator Alloway introduces a Senate version of Castle Doctrine—SB 842

4. Rep. Turzai vows to fix the problems with Title 18 section 6106 (transportation of firearms)

5. Rep. Mustio working on repealing the state run Instant Check System and transferring these duties to the National System

6. The Philadelphia gun control agenda is for all intents and purposes dead I am told (that does NOT mean we will take them for granted)


There are numerous other bills we are working on that were given new impetus by this rally.



In addition with the primaries on hand this caused ‘many’ candidates to feel comfortable enough to discuss these issues with FOAC and to make a more public stand. In fact the Sheriff running for Butler County actually said that IF the feds try and seize firearms from citizens in his county (IF he is elected—He won the primary) he would invoke the10th amendment and arrest them—his name is Mike Slupe! (I spent three hours one day just talking with him about these issues)


The media exposure was far better for this rally and that has lead to numerous other opportunities in confronting the anti-gun agenda.


I know this is short but so much has happened that it is hard to put into words the effects that this show of support has had on our position politically.


Just imagine what we could do IF we had 15,000 or more close down Harrisburg ?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



PLEASE thank all that came and tell them that we promise them another extraordinary rally next year with even more surprises!



Take Care



Kim Stolfer

[Lazydog]

This is great!!! I am glad we could make such an impact on our Representatives.
Glad I was part of it!!! Looking forward to the next one.

[mikey]

I can not wait until next years rally. Can't we do another one this year?

[Kimba]

Originally Posted by mikey

I can not wait until next years rally. Can't we do another one this year?

<Snip> Kim also wanted to thank all of the PAFOA people that attended and helped out on this effort, without your help and attendance these events would not be possible.


IF anyone would like to do more to directly protect your firearm rights and be included or notified of the mini Harrisburg lobbying events. That always seem to come up on very short notice to fight or promote some specific piece of legislation.
Please send me a PM with your personal contact information
(email name phone number) . I will make sure you get your invitation to join with US, with the max possible advance time notice of the date that I get of Harrisburg legislative lobbying trips.

Right now we are talking about one in early june to gather more sponsor to HB 40 and move this to direct house vote
http://forum.pafoa.org/pennsylvania-...ease-read.html (Castle Doctrine HB 40 in 09 does anyone REALLY want this passed? If so please read).<Snip>

Not the big blow out that was held in April but this might soothe your jones a little.