Non Glock Polymer framed pistol's

[Big D]

Originally Posted by gf45acp

Why chose? Get one of each! Think of the fun!

That's one hell of a good idea.

[billt]

Originally Posted by Big D

I have picked up dozens. I have never shot one. From the feel & look of how it is made... I believe it should cost no more than $200.

I agree with this on ALL plastic guns, Glock included. Springfield proved this when they got involved with the HS-2000 and turned it into the XD. They sold under the HS-2000 banner for $250.00. After they "converted it" to the XD and stamped their name on it the price jumped up to $450.00+. Mostly to pay for all of it's advertising. A plastic handgun frame can be molded in seconds. Time = money in manufacturing, as does material cost. A 50 pound sack of plastic, (Polymer) costs a few bucks and will make well over a hundred handgun frames in minutes, with one guy on the press. Compare that to the Baby Desert Eagle I just bought that is all steel, and sells most everywhere for under $500.00. Look at it's material cost, machine time, deburr time, polish and blue time, fit and assembly time. And they can still turn a profit at the same price, or less than a XD. Gaston Glock is a multi millionaire because of the fantastic profit margin he is able to sell his guns at. Springfield makes a fortune on the XD for the same reason. There is nothing wrong with this mind you, it's simply good business. Aluminum is in the same category. FASTER not BETTER. I own a Glock 21 and love it. Do I think it's worth the money? No. It's a $200.00 gun tops. But, like many shooters, I finally decided to find out for myself what all the hooplah was about. It's a good, rugged handgun that has tested itself over time. That said the price is far to high for what the gun is made of, and what it takes time wise to produce it start to finish by people who are no where near as skilled as someone who fits and assembles an all steel handgun. Bill T.

[Penguini66]

Originally Posted by billt

A plastic handgun frame can be molded in seconds. Time = money in manufacturing, as does material cost. A 50 pound sack of plastic, (Polymer) costs a few bucks and will make well over a hundred handgun frames in minutes, with one guy on the press.

But don't forget that the mold that makes a single version of a plastic frame could easily cost $100k to build. Probably more. To meet demand they probably have multiple molds or mold cavities. Amortize all that $ into the cost of the guns, factor in mold maintenance, and the cost begins to make at least a little more sense again.

Admittedly, those molds may have been paid for several times over by now. I really don't know.

Yes, time certainly does = money. And that is why a metal frame will always cost the same to manufacture 10 years ago as it does today (well, with inflation of course). As with many labor intensive products, the material costs are relatively so low that they're hardly a factor.

But the different thing about a plastic molded frame is that the producer has to invest a large chunk of money up front for the mold. Then price the gun so the mold is paid off in a certain number of years. If he sells more guns, he pays it off sooner. If he sells less guns, he might be up the creek.

What I'd like to know though, is how can Kel-Tec offer a plastic gun for ~$250. Kel-Tec frames have the same relative mold complexity of a Glock so therefore the molds should cost about the same. There's not really that much less materials in a Kel-Tec to justify a lower cost. And Kel-Tec obviously sells ALLOT less firearms than Glock which would mean they should have to amortize more into each. So who knows. I guess I just killed my own point.

In the end, I guess a firearm is only worth what people are willing to pay for it.

[billt]

Originally Posted by Penguini66

What I'd like to know though, is how can Kel-Tec offer a plastic gun for ~$250. Kel-Tec frames have the same relative mold complexity of a Glock so therefore the molds should cost about the same. There's not really that much less materials in a Kel-Tec to justify a lower cost. And Kel-Tec obviously sells ALLOT less firearms than Glock which would mean they should have to amortize more into each. So who knows. I guess I just killed my own point. In the end, I guess a firearm is only worth what peopare willing to pay for it.

I agree on all points, and Kel-Tec is a great example that I overlooked. There SU-16 Pistol in .223 is an excellent example of a gun that has features and materials that fit the cost. They are selling them as fast as they can make them. Bushmaster is another example of the other end. Their Carbon 15 Models cost as much as their Aluminum counterparts. Carbon Fiber is more expensive than plastic or Polymer, but it still has to be a cheaper process. It all boils down to what the market will bear. A good businessman doesn't sell something for $200.00 when he can get $600.00+. Bill T.

[billt]

You're correct about the initial cost of a mold. I make them for a living. But you also have to consider all of the specialized jigs and fixtures involved in most all steel and Aluminum gunmaking. A frame of any handgun is an awkward piece to hold and clamp while machine work is being done to it. It requires a lot of fixturing, tombstones, etc., for multiple machining of several at once. Also a lot of program time for all of the CNC processes, and a whole bunch of set ups. Not to mention tool costs. All, or at least most of this is eliminated in a plastic frame gun. I would love to know Glock or Springfield's production cost for one gun. I think most would be shocked. Bill T.

[SSGF109]

Originally Posted by Big D

I have picked up dozens. I have never shot one. From the feel & look of how it is made... I believe it should cost no more than $200.

Big D, I use to think the same way. Try to shoot one you will be totally surprised. I was. I went out the next day and purchased one. I have never been sorry I did. Now I'm a Glockaholic. I trust my life and my families carrying one. I own a pistol from 7 other major pistol makers and glock tops the list, then my Kimber .45. In fairness to your statement your somewhat right. Alot of pistols are over priced, but! as long as it shoot well, is durable, and feels good that sort of makes up the difference. Glocks EXCEED all this and more..IMHO

[SSGF109]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

LMAO, that's funny right there, I don't care who ya are!

Ya real funny

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by SSGF109

Ya real funny

What's not funny about it?

[Big D]

Picked up my new SP2022 today. Just got done cleaning it and trying out the different grips. I plan on taking it to the range tommorrow afternoon for some quality time.

[gf45acp]

Congrats on the new family member! Sometime when there is a shoot in NEPA that I can make I'LL bring a few other polys with me for you to try, you'll love the 17 oz. 40cal P40!