Walther P99 Review

[JCF191101]

NineseveN, how well does this weapon conceal for you? I really like the sounds of this gun but it seems a little large to me. I'm not really all that sensative to weapon size in the right holster mind you, I'm just trying to gauge exactly how big it is.

I currently carry a Glock 19 without issue in a Blade-Tech UCH with no issues what so ever.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by FUNDAMENTALS

Thank you very much for the EXCELLENT review. I very much like the style in which
it was presented. I have fired this pistol on several occassions and in both
calibers. I consider it an outstanding firearm. It may be a "sleeper" to the L.E.O.
community, but I see this as a cost and training issue in transitional training.
The one advantage I think is overlooked , the weapons grip can be changed
to accomodate the various hand size and trigger reach. Thank you again

The different sized backstraps is one of the really innovative features of this gun. People sometimes forget, the P99 has been doing what is now the latest fad (S&W M&P and such) for many years.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by JCF191101

NineseveN, how well does this weapon conceal for you? I really like the sounds of this gun but it seems a little large to me. I'm not really all that sensative to weapon size in the right holster mind you, I'm just trying to gauge exactly how big it is.

I currently carry a Glock 19 without issue in a Blade-Tech UCH with no issues what so ever.

It's the most concealable gun I've ever owned to be honest. The technical dimensions are very similar between the G19 and the P99:

G19
L: 6.85"
W: 1.18"
H: 5.00"
Weight (empty): 20.99oz (29.98oz loaded)

P99
L: 7.10"
W: 1.30"
H: 5.30"
Weight (empty): 21.2oz (30.2oz loaded approx)


But those are technical dimensions. Where the Walther differs significant;y from the Glock and other more squared designs like it is that the P99 is sculpted at every corner. The gun has what 1911 enthusiasts call a "melt job" done to it all over the entire gun (there is only one area without rounded lines and corners -the front top-side of the ejection port). This is especially evident in the grip and backstrap area while carrying it. Take a look at the photos below:




The gun in the middle is an FN FNP9, which has a grip profile similar to the Glock in terms or overall shape (the angle is different however). Notice the bulk of it, how it's more blocky than the P99 and the 1911 sandwiching it. The P99 has the oval shaped rear grip, similar to the 1911 (another highly concealable gun), but the sides going back are also scalloped out at the bottom (the place where the gun is most likely to print in my experience). This extremely reduced profile in the rear butt end of the grip and backstrap significantly aid in concealment. Where clothes might be prone to bunch up and gut hung on the squared corners of the Glock grip, they'll slide right past the P99 due to the extremely contoured angle designed into it.



If you look at the photo above, you'll see that the butt of the grip on the P99 is also "bobtailed" (another 1911 custom option), which also greatly aids in concealment.

Compare those photos to the grip of your Glock. In short, if you can conceal the G19, the P99 should easily conceal as well, if not better.

[JCF191101]

Thanks a ton for the reply NineseveN. I think I'm going to have to pick one of these up.

[TonyF]

This was an extremely well written review but somehow that doesn't surprise me.

However, there are a couple of things about the AS model that concern me.

Originally Posted by NineseveN

On the AS models, the trigger is still the same, which is a wonderfully funky DA/AS/SA striker-fired design unique to Walther. When you chamber a round, the striker goes back, putting the gun into AS mode (anti-stress as Walther calls it). It's a single action mode, but the trigger is all the way forward as it would be in DA mode, yet the difference between AS and DA is that there is very little weight to the trigger pull until you get into where the SA mode comes in. When in AS mode, if you pull the trigger a little bit until you feel it click, the trigger will stay there (kind of like a set trigger design found on some rifles). This puts the gun into SA mode with a very short and light trigger pull, which is how the trigger would also automatically be set if you fired a round and allowed the trigger to reset, the distance of which is shorter than that on my 1911's, if only barely so (if you sneeze, this gun just might reset on you).

Am I the only one that finds pressing the trigger in order to enable SA mode disconcerting?

However, if one prefers DA mode for carry or bedside gun duty, there is a decocker button on the top left of the slide to the rear.

IMO a decocker that forces you to break your firing grip is also a bit of a concern.

A few years ago we actually had a student in one of our classes with this pistol and he couldn't keep the manual of arms straight. IOW, there were too many options and in actual use he found it too complicated and switched to a glock after struggling with it through the first day and a half.

IMHO, if this pistol strikes your fancy, I'd strongly advise the QA model.

[DaveM55]

Great review, well written.

It won't let me give you any more rep points right now.

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by TonyF

Am I the only one that finds pressing the trigger in order to enable SA mode disconcerting?

Actually, no, you're not the only one. There are a number of people who opt for the QA (DAO) model for that very reason. And I would agree with them about it; if they don't feel comfortable with that option on the gun, I would absolutely advise against it.

Having said that, keep in mind that one does not need to set the trigger (an informal glance at polls on the Walther forums suggests that most don't carry this way, instead opting to leaving it in AS mode which is a long and light pull or decocking it for DA on the first shot). The option itself is only unsafe if the shooter is not safe, which is true of any firing mode or any other feature on a firearm. It would be nearly impossible for someone to accidentally engage the trigger when setting it into SA mode without extreme negligence or a malfunction of the firearm itself. It's terribly hard to describe in words because unlike most other trigger mechanisms, this one has no direct comparison except for target-style set triggers, which are pretty rare as I understand it and even still, they require a different motion to engage.

It isn't something that one would suggest during an adrenaline dump, nor would I think anyone would actually try doing this during one (though there are exceptions), it's an option to set the trigger to SA mode before you put it in your holster for the day. Can it be dangerous if the user is negligent? Sure can, but so can a lot of features or mechanisms on any handgun.

IMO a decocker that forces you to break your firing grip is also a bit of a concern.

That depends on your hand size and what thumb you decock with. Your weak hand thumb can engage the decocker quite easily for most people. However, again, this isn't like a slide stop/release where someone will be needing to do it in the middle of combat (arguably, one would always want SA over the DA pull in a firefight), it's a method to add an extra bit of idiot-proofness or carry comfort to the gun before holstering for the day. Doing it with the weak hand or with the strong hand once the gun is in the holster (the two ways I would normally do it) is trivial.

A few years ago we actually had a student in one of our classes with this pistol and he couldn't keep the manual of arms straight. IOW, there were too many options and in actual use he found it too complicated and switched to a glock after struggling with it through the first day and a half.

No offense meant to that person, but unless the instructors were demanding him use the gun in a certain way, I find that must have been a problem with the user. One needs not do anything to the gun any differently than the Glock, one need not use any of those options. With a Glock, you load the gun and holster it. There is no set of the trigger available, there is no decocker, and there is no safety. There is no need for the user to set the Walther trigger, it can be fired just by doing nothing more than loading the gun; same as a Glock (with a better, though longer trigger pull IMHO). There is no need to decock the gun, it's only there if one desires to use it (the P99 is no less safe when cocked than a Glock is sans decocker). If the instructors were demanding or training that this person must use the decock or the set trigger on the gun simply because they exist, IMHO, that's a problem with the training as well (the instructors being unfamiliar with the nuances of a different gun they may have had little to no experience with).

I've seen people in training have a hard time with the thumb safety on a 1911. They just couldn't get disengaging the safety down during drawing and firing for speed. That's not a slight on the 1911, it's a limitation of the user. Eventually they all pretty much got it down after a lot of instruction and practice, but that instruction came from people intimately familiar with the 1911 and how to overcome such seemingly small challenges.

The P99 probably isn't a gun for someone who won't take the time alone to get intimately familiar with how to operate it...but I would submit that such a person probably wouldn't be proficient with any other gun without a lot of programming coming in the form of instruction from people familiar with the specific gun or the manual of arms for that firearm type.

IMHO, if this pistol strikes your fancy, I'd strongly advise the QA model.

A lot of people get the QA and dislike it when they actually fire an AS model. My advice is to try and check one out at a gun shop or find someone who has an AS model and head to the range. It may not be for everyone. I bring mine along to the PAFOA shoots as an FYI.

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by NineseveN

Having said that, keep in mind that one does not need to set the trigger (an informal glance at polls on the Walther forums suggests that most don't carry this way, instead opting to leaving it in AS mode which is a long and light pull or decocking it for DA on the first shot). The option itself is only unsafe if the shooter is not safe, which is true of any firing mode or any other feature on a firearm. It would be nearly impossible for someone to accidentally engage the trigger when setting it into SA mode without extreme negligence or a malfunction of the firearm itself. It's terribly hard to describe in words because unlike most other trigger mechanisms, this one has no direct comparison except for target-style set triggers, which are pretty rare as I understand it and even still, they require a different motion to engage.

It isn't something that one would suggest during an adrenaline dump, nor would I think anyone would actually try doing this during one (though there are exceptions), it's an option to set the trigger to SA mode before you put it in your holster for the day. Can it be dangerous if the user is negligent? Sure can, but so can a lot of features or mechanisms on any handgun.

I'll have to take a look at yours but it still troubles me because it violates Rule #3. So does field stripping a glock but at least with glocks you're pressing the trigger on a cleared weapon.

That depends on your hand size and what thumb you decock with. Your weak hand thumb can engage the decocker quite easily for most people. However, again, this isn't like a slide stop/release where someone will be needing to do it in the middle of combat (arguably, one would always want SA over the DA pull in a firefight), it's a method to add an extra bit of idiot-proofness or carry comfort to the gun before holstering for the day. Doing it with the weak hand or with the strong hand once the gun is in the holster (the two ways I would normally do it) is trivial.

I'm trying to conceptualize. One can reach the decocking button with the support side thumb w/o breaking their firing grip?

No offense meant to that person, but unless the instructors were demanding him use the gun in a certain way, I find that must have been a problem with the user. One needs not do anything to the gun any differently than the Glock, one need not use any of those options. With a Glock, you load the gun and holster it. There is no set of the trigger available, there is no decocker, and there is no safety. There is no need for the user to set the Walther trigger, it can be fired just by doing nothing more than loading the gun; same as a Glock (with a better, though longer trigger pull IMHO). There is no need to decock the gun, it's only there if one desires to use it (the P99 is no less safe when cocked than a Glock is sans decocker). If the instructors were demanding or training that this person must use the decock or the set trigger on the gun simply because they exist, IMHO, that's a problem with the training as well (the instructors being unfamiliar with the nuances of a different gun they may have had little to no experience with).

This was five or six years ago and I really can't recall the particulars. If I had to guess I'd say the only thing we asked him to do was decock on going to Low Ready after a drill as one would with a conventional DA/SA pistol.

IIRC, the student was the source of the confusion and it was his choice to switch to his glock.

I can understand from a marketing perspective designing in all those options and it's a credit to walther's engineering prowess to have figured out a way to do all that in one platform.

OTOH, they also gave us the P-38 and the rest as they say, is history.

I have no doubt it's a quality handgun but IMO providing that many options was unnecessary in what is essentially a striker fired design. I liken it to the version of the M&P 45 and Glock 21SF with the thumb safety. The only reason for a manual safety was due to it being a design criteria for the new .mil pistol that has yet to materialize.

[itstock]

Great review, and thanks for sharing!! Now if only I could win the one on fnforum.net

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by TonyF

I'll have to take a look at yours but it still troubles me because it violates Rule #3. So does field stripping a glock but at least with glocks you're pressing the trigger on a cleared weapon.

I understand what you're saying, but dry fire practice violates rule #1 on a technical standpoint. The 4 rules are layered, meaning they all have to be broken conceptually for any damage to occur. I understand that your position on that is going to be a lot more strict due to your status as a firearms instructor and you have to look at the lowest denominator, but there are a number of things that according to many instructors are not safe and that opinion is based on the idiots and not the norm.

I hear a lot of instructors advising against exceptionally light Single Action triggers for carry, yet if one follows the 4 rules, it's not an issue that an extra pound or two in the trigger can or really needs to solve. There are and have been many that advise against carrying a Glock or any gun without a manual safety. Some seem to cling to the idea that a DAO is the best way to go and all else is only for professionals (and even then sometimes not).

Regardless, again, one doesn't need to pre-set the P99 trigger, most don't, they simply leave it alone or decock it.

I'm trying to conceptualize. One can reach the decocking button with the support side thumb w/o breaking their firing grip?

That depends on how anal one is about what constitutes actually breaking the firing grip and also the hand size or thumb length of the user. Again though, it's not an operation that someone would need to do in real life without breaking the firing grip, it's an academic question, not one with any true significance in the firearm's use. The only practical reason to decock on going to low ready is to follow range rules during training or competition; places where safety standards must be anal due to insurance and accountability standards. In using the gun for real, I know of no reason why one would automatically decock the handgun on going to low ready, at least none that would require that the complete firing grip be maintained.

This was five or six years ago and I really can't recall the particulars. If I had to guess I'd say the only thing we asked him to do was decock on going to Low Ready after a drill as one would with a conventional DA/SA pistol.

Which was probably not at all necessary, but the requirement was given simply because the gun had that feature, not because it was actually imperative that one use it. People that come to training with Springfield XD's or Glocks don't have to do that simply because they can't. Neither of those pistols is any safer when loaded than a P99 would be when loaded and not decocked.

I can understand from a marketing perspective designing in all those options and it's a credit to walther's engineering prowess to have figured out a way to do all that in one platform.

OTOH, they also gave us the P-38 and the rest as they say, is history.

I have no doubt it's a quality handgun but IMO providing that many options was unnecessary in what is essentially a striker fired design. I liken it to the version of the M&P 45 and Glock 21SF with the thumb safety. The only reason for a manual safety was due to it being a design criteria for the new .mil pistol that has yet to materialize.

Except that they didn't build this gun for you or anyone else in particualr. I think both the M&P and the Glock of any variant is garbage compared to the Walther. The trigger is a huge reason for that. I'm glad Walther designed the gun exactly as they did, I use each and every option depending on the circumstances and I wouldn't change a thing about any of them for my personal use. Even though I could personally live without the decocker, some people like it for carry reasons, so to each their own. Some people prefer a thumb safety, some prefer SAO, some prefer light triggers, some prefer heavy long triggers, some prefer a DAO gun and like the HK USP design with all of those variants incorporated. So long as an option doesn't hamper the actual function of the gun, different strokes for different folks.