45 Gap

[XD45]

its at least the 3rd year its been for sale to the public... and I'm sure someplace at sometime someone with a badge put a 45gap in a holster and went to work, not every agency issues guns, alot let you choose. I'm just not sure what else you'd want, they have tested tested tested if they decided thats what they wanted to go with, the gun isn't going to not go off because its in a stressful situation. fact is no matter what they issue it will get criticized, at least this has more stopping power than a 9mm, and is a glock.

[Tomcat088]

First off, a little about the .45 GAP, and I will choose to try to stay away from some of the political stuff. Many have stated that the .45 GAP has exactly the same ballistics as the .45 ACP. Now this is true to an extent, but from what I have read about this and the ballistics tests this isn't true about all bullet weights. Now there may be some loads that have come out since I read some of these articles, it's been maybe 5 months since I have. All of the ballistics tests that I saw claimed that the .45 GAP had basically identical ballistics with up to a 200 grain bullet. BUT when you switched over to a 230 grain bullet in the .45 GAP, it did NOT have the same ballistics as the .45 ACP. Now this is fine and dandy if you like to shoot 185 grain or 200 grain bullets, but if you prefer the 230 grain bullets in a .45 ACP, you won't get the same performance out of the .45 GAP.

Now realize that glock didn't make the .45 GAP to necessarily replace the .45 ACP. They made it so that you could have a pistol that had similar ballistics to the .45 ACP, but that you could put in the frame of a 9mm and .40 S&W pistol. I think it's funny that alot of people have stated things like the .45 GAP felt better than the .40 S&W in the same brand, when in fact they are exactly the same size frame in most of the pistols that shoot the .45 GAP. As others have stated, the .45 GAP is a high pressure round, just like the .40 S&W, this means it could potentially have the downfalls of the higher pressure rounds. Many of these are subjective and harder to measure, but they can include snappier recoil, potential for higher pressures and higher possibility of a KB!, etc. Anyway, just realize that the pistol is a .40 S&W frame, and it's also a high pressure round, so it will have a similar recoil, but possibly slightly more recoil because you are firing a heavier projectile.

Those things considered, it makes me kind of ask myself a few questions. If I'm going to be shooting 185 grain and 200 grain bullets, why not go with a pistol chambered for .40 S&W? There are manufacturers that make those weights of bullets in the .40 S&W. From my experience in alot of gunshops, the .40 S&W is MUCH easier to locate than the .45 GAP and it's cheaper. The .40 S&W is more established, which means more choices in ammo manufacturers, bullet weights, aftermarket parts for the pistols, and even resale options. Basically, you're purchasing a .40 S&W that is roughly .05" wider, and possibly alot more trouble. Just consider some of those factors before you jump on the train, it could be a fine round for you, but your needs might be better fit by a caliber that is very similar to it.

[RandomTask]

Originally Posted by Skuggi

Well it's my understanding that the PSP is basically getting a buy one get one free from glock on this deal.

A Trooper friend of mine said that the PSP really blew it when they had a chance to get ALL their Glocks for free 10 years ago, but back then Troopers weren't even allowed to carry one as their off-duty weapon because the PSP felt the gun was unsafe. Back then, Glock was in need of the publicity generated by large agency incorporation. Now that Glock is a household name, they don't give away free guns anymore.

[XD45]

i personally would own one for availability reasons, and i like to shoot heavier loads so the .45 would be best for me, i also dont mind high recoil, infact i love it... the reason i am jumping on the train for this on is A: its not a 9mm, and B: its a glock..

[XD45]

Originally Posted by RandomTask

A Trooper friend of mine said that the PSP really blew it when they had a chance to get ALL their Glocks for free 10 years ago, but back then Troopers weren't even allowed to carry one as their off-duty weapon because the PSP felt the gun was unsafe. Back then, Glock was in need of the publicity generated by large agency incorporation. Now that Glock is a household name, they don't give away free guns anymore.

maybe they are doing the buy one get one just for the 45gap trying to market that?

[Quarterbore]

I had not heard that there were so many departments going to the GAP.

Personally, I will stick with the 45ACP and I love my Glock 21 and Glock 30. I can't help but wonder however if that buy-one get-one-free deal is at the discount prices that LEOs and Departments get anyways. If so, then I expect they would be paying just over $200/Glock.

Now, if as hinted they sell the old Berettas for $250, this would be a no-expense pistol except for losing their Beretta 96s.

Personally, I would have thought they would have stuck with the Glock 22 or Glock 23 but hey, what do I know? Perhaps Glock wants to get some shootings done with the 45 GAP so they have data to support bigger sales in the future. How many people do the Police shoot in the state a year?

[VeryPrivate]

Originally Posted by Tomcat088

All of the ballistics tests that I saw claimed that the .45 GAP had basically identical ballistics with up to a 200 grain bullet. BUT when you switched over to a 230 grain bullet in the .45 GAP, it did NOT have the same ballistics as the .45 ACP. Now this is fine and dandy if you like to shoot 185 grain or 200 grain bullets, but if you prefer the 230 grain bullets in a .45 ACP, you won't get the same performance out of the .45 GAP.

The Winchester ammo site lists both their 230gr 45 ACP and 45 GAP as having a MV of 880 fps. The Federal site lists their 230gr 45 ACP at 890fps and their 230gr 45GAP at 880 fps. So for these two makers, the performance in 230 grains is the nominally the same. Speer, for whatever reason, tops out at 200 gr for the 45 GAP.

[Tomcat088]

Thank you for listing that information veryprivate. To be honest, I'm still not sure that I really quite trust it and let me tell you why. Several years ago I bought some ammunition from winchester in .22-250 that was supposed to be moving I believe 4,000 fps, but it kept shooting quite a bit lower than some of the handloads that I had been shooting that were around 4,000 fps. So my gunsmith friend and I pull out a chrono and take some readings, and they were really all around 3,725fps-3,750 something fps. When I asked the gunsmith what he thought of that, he laughed and said, they pad their numbers, and have been doing that for a while. Now Federal and Winchester both may have some out with a load that will do that in the .45 GAP, but it still makes me just a bit cautious since speer only goes up to 200 gr. I'll try to look into this a little more and see if I can dig anything else up. If the numbers are true, then I appreciate your correction, I'll let ya'll know if I find anything.

[Karys]

I think the real reason for the .45 GAP was so old Gaston could get his name on a cartridge before he died.

What Glock should have done was apply the slimline design of the Glock 36 to the rest of the product line by producing thinner full sized guns in 9mm, .40 and .45 ACP with single stack, 7-10 round magazines. They would have sold like hotcakes to people that can't fit the grip of a full sized double stack Glock in their hands.

Hey Quarterbore, nice to see you made it to the forums here.

[Tomcat088]

Ok, so I did a little bit of searching and digging, so that I could find out the scoop on this 200 gr and 230 gr data that we've been hearing about. I looked up some handload data from some people who have chronographed the .45 GAP, and it DOES verify what VeryPrivate found on the winchester and federal websites. BUT the answer about comparing the 2 rounds and saying that they have "near identical" ballistics gets a slight twist here. Apparently when speer and federal were first developing the round, they only went to 200 gr bullets. When winchester jumped on board with making the .45 GAP, they showed that they could make a load that was 230 gr and almost identical to the standard 230 gr .45 ACP loading.

Now, many people who are comparing the .45 ACP to the .45 GAP, will be looking at it in terms of a carry piece, or for personal defense in the home. Now with that in mind, many people who choose these applications like to shoot "+P" or "+P+" (higher pressure) rounds. This is where the slight twist comes into the whole 230 gr loads. The pressure of the .45 GAP loaded with a 230 gr bullet is at 23,000 psi to get the bullet moving around 850-860fps (give or take a little). This is expected, because the .45 GAP is a higher pressure round than the .45 ACP. From what I have seen though, this is the maximum loading of the .45 GAP, the 230 gr bullet moving at .45 ACP standards, this means that there is no .45 GAP +P loading, and when I said +P I mean an even higher pressure than 23,000 psi. Now when you take the .45 ACP to the same 23,000 psi, which the .45 ACP +P rounds are all around that number; the .45 GAP CANNOT keep up with it. That's ok, shorter cases with new propellants aren't magic, they're science, we can only expect so much.

So basically the answer was a bit more complicated than what we were thinking. If you only shoot a standard .45 ACP load, then the .45 GAP maximum loading will duplicate the ballistics. IF you prefer to shoot some of the "hotter" .45 ACP rounds like the +P's, then the .45 GAP will fall short of that standard. So there you have it, maybe that will help some of you with this whole debate. Oh and I've included some articles where I found some of this information on the net. I read lots of articles in magazines about this subject before this time, and I can assure you that these online articles agree with all of the others that I read.

http://www.shootingtimes.com/ammunition/new_45/
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/reloads/gar0506/
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...1/ai_n13469649
http://www.gunweek.com/2007/feature0410.html