help with target shooting

[WWGunslinger]

About 7 yards (21 ft) from the target. I have a bad habit of wanting to squeeze the rounds off quickly. I've been trying to work on that though.

Target 1 - CZ P-01 9mm - Got my Crimson Trace grips for my CZ P-01 today so I had to go out and try them out. Not sure how many rounds I shot, probably about 40-50 at this one target. All those low shots are from when I was aiming for the center torso (orange spot) target. I then tried to aim for the head target (orange spot) and all my shots were landing right in the main area for the center torso. Curious, I went back in the house and got 3 of my other handguns.

Target 2 - Bersa Thunder .380 - Aiming for center torso and hitting low here also. I forgot to bring another box of ammo up with me and didn't feel like going back to the house to get it, so there are only 14 shots.
Maybe I am shooting low.

Target 3 - Springfield Armory 1911 .45 - Again, aiming for center torso and shooting low. I love the way the 1911 looks and I love the history behind it, but its not my favorite gun to shoot. i don't like the heavy recoil and the grip safety feels like its pinching my hand when i shoot.

Target 4 - Taurus PT99 9mm - Aiming for center torso and hitting it. Also shot a mag at the head target for fun. way better than with the other guns.

Target 5 - Taurus PT99 9mm - Some more shots from the PT99 at another target. again, pretty good. I got lazy and wanted to go back in so on the last mag (10 rounds) I just fired them off really quick, so thats why there's so many in odd places.

So what do you guys think? why are my targets (especially the 1st PT99 target) so good (compared to the rest of the guns I have)? Also, whats the deal with my CZ shooting the way it is?

I'd really like some more input from more experienced shooters. Thanks guys.

[TonyF]

A POI well grouped and low usually indicates that a shooter is looking for impacts in the target after each shot. As you peek over the sights at the target you are actually ever so slightly depressing the muzzle and believe it or not, you are doing it BEFORE the bullet exits the barrel.

This is basically a failure to "follow through", part of which is reacquiring a sight picture (finding the front sight) after each shot.

It could have to do with grip and the success with the taurus may be that it "points" more naturally for you than the other pistols.

[aubie515]

Regarding the CTC on your P 01. The laser should be sighted in at a specified distance and that information should be in your manual. You can adjust the laser on your CTC. I personally would set the laser up for 15 or 20 yards, but that's my preference. In order to adjust your CTC, I would rest the pistol on a front rest bag. Use sandbags if you don't own a rifle rest. Make sure you range the distance from your pistol to the target and adjust the CTC.

How's your breathing and trigger control? I find that breathing is very important when it comes to shooting. You might also want to load 5 rounds in the magazine and take your time while shooting. You should be getting one hole groups at 7 yards with a laser device.

[WWGunslinger]

Originally Posted by TonyF

A POI well grouped and low usually indicates that a shooter is looking for impacts in the target after each shot. As you peek over the sights at the target you are actually ever so slightly depressing the muzzle and believe it or not, you are doing it BEFORE the bullet exits the barrel.

This is basically a failure to "follow through", part of which is reacquiring a sight picture (finding the front sight) after each shot.

It could have to do with grip and the success with the taurus may be that it "points" more naturally for you than the other pistols.

its funny that you mention that because i did catch myself lowering my pt99 after each shot and then raising it again. i don't recall doing it with the others, but i bet i did.

[WWGunslinger]

Anyone in the central PA area (that is a good shot, lol) that would be willing to meet up with me and give me some pointers or tell me what i'm doing wrong?

I live just outside of Newport but I'd probably be willing to go to Harrisburg or that general area.

[greener]

Take a look at the shot group analysis on this site http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm
and read through the techniques in the Army training manual
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

My first impression on the targets is that, in most cases, your grip, stance and trigger pull is inconsistent. I'm not familiar with the pistols you are shooting, but I'd also bet that the lower the shots, the heavier the trigger pull on the pistol, except for the CZ where the laser might well not be properly adjusted.

A few of my suggestions. Folks who are better trained and better shooters than I can give you better advice. From the looks of the targets, you are not doing several things consistently.

1. Do some reading on groups and stances. Pick one that feels comfortable.
2. Practice dry firing away from the range with that grip and stance. I'm not sure that any of the standards such as weaver or isosceles or modifications make a difference initially as long as it is comfortable and you are in the grip and stance consistently. You can always change later.
3. Work on trigger control. You should be pulling the trigger straight back in a manner that the front sight doesn't move during dry fire.
4. The CZ with the crimson trace is the perfect pistol for this. The laser should stay on target while you pull the trigger.
5. Practice follow through. You need to hold the pistol on target before and after the shot.
6. I wouldn't worry about where the rounds go initially. Worry about putting them in the same place with the same sight picture. You can always adjust where they go after they start going somewhere consistently. From the looks of the targets, you are not shooting consistently round to round. Don't try to move the rounds on target until you get consistent. Trying to adjust the point of impact after every round makes the group wider, not tighter, and can make you more off-target.
7. Don't load full magazines. Load 3-5 rounds per magazine. Concentrate on making the 3-5 shots go consistently into the target.
8. If you get tired, stop and rest for a while. As you tire, the front of the pistol gets wobbly and the rounds start going all over the place.
9. Grip the pistol firmly, but not too tight. The harder you squeeze, the more wobbly the pistol gets.
10. If you shoot with a buddy, have him/her watch you and the pistol when you shoot. He may pick up some things you are doing unconsciously.
11. Relax and have fun at the range. Work hard at being better, but remember that you should be enjoying the trip. War story: I recently bought a Walther P22. I do not shoot that pistol well. I can hit squat with it, but it has to be a big squat that is very close. The guy next to me was shooting pretty good groups with everything but his new P22. The harder we worked, the worse we got. Somewhere along the line we started laughing about how bad we were and suddenly both of us started getting tighter groups, centered around the target. As soon as we remembered we were supposed to be having fun, the P22's started shooting better.

Hope this helps. Enjoy shooting.

[Lycanthrope]

Dry fire.

Dry fire some more.

Dry fire with a dime on your slide.....it should never move.

Dry fire while eating a sandwich......wait...no, that's me.

That target analysis is VERY generic. Trigger pull, grip, flinching, zero and other factors can all play in.

I'll be in Harrisburg Monday and Tuesday if you can find a range.........of course I will also be driving back along 76W after 2pm if you know somewhere closer to home.

Lycannoproblemthrope

[vikz]

I am not an expert on shooting but it seems like you are anticipating the recoil on some of your shots with the 1911, its a normal reaction, just do some dry firing(safely pls.)so you can get used to the trigger,when you go back to the range just try to remember this, focus on your front sight and sqeeze not pull sqeeze the trigger, i know this will work becs i was doing exactly thesame thing you're doing, i am anticipating the recoil so i tend to lean forward alot...

[vikz]

+ 1 on his suggestions also..dry fire and the front sight is your friend as said by todd jarrett in his video..do a google search you will see what i mean..

Originally Posted by greener

Take a look at the shot group analysis on this site http://www.bullseyepistol.com/training.htm
and read through the techniques in the Army training manual
http://www.bullseyepistol.com/amucover.htm

My first impression on the targets is that, in most cases, your grip, stance and trigger pull is inconsistent. I'm not familiar with the pistols you are shooting, but I'd also bet that the lower the shots, the heavier the trigger pull on the pistol, except for the CZ where the laser might well not be properly adjusted.

A few of my suggestions. Folks who are better trained and better shooters than I can give you better advice. From the looks of the targets, you are not doing several things consistently.

1. Do some reading on groups and stances. Pick one that feels comfortable.
2. Practice dry firing away from the range with that grip and stance. I'm not sure that any of the standards such as weaver or isosceles or modifications make a difference initially as long as it is comfortable and you are in the grip and stance consistently. You can always change later.
3. Work on trigger control. You should be pulling the trigger straight back in a manner that the front sight doesn't move during dry fire.
4. The CZ with the crimson trace is the perfect pistol for this. The laser should stay on target while you pull the trigger.
5. Practice follow through. You need to hold the pistol on target before and after the shot.
6. I wouldn't worry about where the rounds go initially. Worry about putting them in the same place with the same sight picture. You can always adjust where they go after they start going somewhere consistently. From the looks of the targets, you are not shooting consistently round to round. Don't try to move the rounds on target until you get consistent. Trying to adjust the point of impact after every round makes the group wider, not tighter, and can make you more off-target.
7. Don't load full magazines. Load 3-5 rounds per magazine. Concentrate on making the 3-5 shots go consistently into the target.
8. If you get tired, stop and rest for a while. As you tire, the front of the pistol gets wobbly and the rounds start going all over the place.
9. Grip the pistol firmly, but not too tight. The harder you squeeze, the more wobbly the pistol gets.
10. If you shoot with a buddy, have him/her watch you and the pistol when you shoot. He may pick up some things you are doing unconsciously.
11. Relax and have fun at the range. Work hard at being better, but remember that you should be enjoying the trip. War story: I recently bought a Walther P22. I do not shoot that pistol well. I can hit squat with it, but it has to be a big squat that is very close. The guy next to me was shooting pretty good groups with everything but his new P22. The harder we worked, the worse we got. Somewhere along the line we started laughing about how bad we were and suddenly both of us started getting tighter groups, centered around the target. As soon as we remembered we were supposed to be having fun, the P22's started shooting better.

Hope this helps. Enjoy shooting.

[LastManOut]

I was able to improve my accuracy by having a friend watch the gun as I was shooting. The trick was he loaded the magazine for me and placed a couple of dummy rounds in the magazine (sort of along the lines of what Lycanthrope said).
He watched for me to not 'jerk' the trigger and for follow through. This will also give you practice in clearing malfunctions.
Good tips from greener as well.