Applying the safety during holstering...

[falcn]

Originally Posted by stephpd

The Taurus guns aren't DA unless of a light strike. With one in the chamber it's a very long light pull SA. Much different then all the DA/SA guns.

I stand corrected.

[WhiteShadow]

On the guns of mine that have external safeties, i always keep the safety's on...period. No matter if the gun is laying on my bedside table, if its on the desk in the living room, if its in the car, and especially when its in my holster. The only time i EVER take the safety off, is when i'm about to fire the gun.

[Asterix909]

Thanks for the responses so far

Originally Posted by stephpd

There is no harm, ever, to the gun in turning the slide lock off.

Originally Posted by falcn

Turning the safety off when the gun is holstered isn't going to harm your gun in any way - otherwise turning your safety off when the gun is out of the holster is going to do the same damage to the gun.

As I would assume. Repetitive manual operation of the safety doesn't wear it out. Good to verify.

But part of my concern comes from the fact that I am working the safety in a tight and restricted blind space (in a holster). So I guess I worry it may be possible that while working the safety, that I may fail to fully disengage it; or something like that...? Or perhaps that the pistol may lose it's proper seating in the holster during the process, or something... Does anyone else every adjust their safety on a similar weapon while the weapon is holstered? And have you ever had any issues?

[mythaeus]

Safety is to be looked at in its totality, but you decomposed it and asked question about one specific step, want to change a key step that affect its totality, and expected everyone to focus only on that one part. People chastised your practice because of it's out of the normal safety practice totality. Just because you can perform one step safely, it doesn't mean you did not compromise the entire safety process.

Engage the safety before dropping the gun out of target sight and holstered. Disengage safety just before you're near the target while no part of your trigger finger should be involved in dis/engaging process (at least you figured that out early). A lot of 1911 shooters will automatically sweep their thumbs when shooting guns without external safeties; so, yes, you should/can do that too with your M&P to force your practice habit.

There's a lot to be said about consistency in your carry weapons though and I'd rather choose never to carry any gun with a safety; otherwise, you'll have to work with the least common denominator for all your guns and practice a normal and proven way of engaging and disengaging external safety.

Al

[TonyF]

Originally Posted by Asterix909

Another thread got me thinking about a superstitious act I take...

Actually, two...

It all started when I bought my Taurus pt111 pro. When I first started carrying it to get used to the feel, I would carry with the safety on. When I started carrying it for real I carried with the safety off... but... I still applied the safety during holstering... I would holster the pistol with the safety on, then reach in and flick the safety off. I guess this has to do with the fact that during the holstering motion, there is the possibility of the trigger getting snagged and engaged under a near impossible set of circumstances. So I superstitiously holstered with the safety on.

Oh, needless to say I carry with one in the chamber... also, my mil pro's holster kinda sucks, so that might be why I have extra caution. I experience no similar issues to this or the one below while handling my m&p (no external safety).

So, thats the first superstition, holstering with safety on, the flicking it off.

Now for number two:

Realizing it was probably silly that I holstered with the safety on like that, and imagining some (more) experienced firearm handlers chuckling at me, I stopped holstering with the safety on, occasionally...
...but... I did start placing my finger behind the trigger in such a way that it would prevent the trigger from moving during the holster motion. Pretty quickly (like, right away) I caught myself doing this and realized this was probably not very safe... If done carelessly my finger could end up in the wrong spot, and again, under a near impossible set of circumstances I could engage the trigger myself.

So now I am kinda stuck.
I guess what I need to know is if there is anything inherently dangerous, bad for the hardware, or risky in holstering with the safety engaged, then flicking it off once the gun is seated. I have no problem continuing that superstitious action assuming it won't break me, someone else, something else, or the gun. So feel free to tell me if its stupid, but please specify if its stupid for practical reasons or stupid for safety reasons... if you get what I mean.

Thanks

You need to clarify your pistols trigger system in order for forum members to advise you. Nobody can make heads or tails regarding whether the Millenium is a SA or DA/SA and whether or not the "safety" is a true manual safety or if it is a frame mounted decocker.

It appears to me to be some kind of hybrid re: a DA/SA trigger with a frame mounted manual safety that also doubles as a decocker such as is found on their beretta clone.

If I am correct then you should treat the Millenium as a conventional DA/SA autoloader.

1. Decock.

2. Position the "safety/decocker" back to the "fire" position.

3. Holster.

Disengaging the safety / decocker after holstering is a habit that will eventually result in a negligent discharge when carrying your 1911 clone.

The answer to your original question is "no" to mechanical issues and "yes" with regard to safety protocol.

[Yoder]

Originally Posted by Asterix909

oiy...

ok. Time to re-emphasize my point:
Number one,
I am not here to discuss having the safety on or off during normal carry. That debate is moot, since my main carry gun HAS NO EXTERNAL SAFETY so stop wasting your breath. Go soapbox in a 'Carry with safety on or off?' argument thread; I am sure search will find you plenty.

Number two,
I am primarily asking
in reference to the action of disengaging the safety while holstered NOT in reference to carrying with no safety engaged (see point Number one above).

Number three, which I can't hold against anyone for not understanding, since I didn't specify this in my previous posts:
I have never, and plan to never, be(en) involved in a "stressful situation" during which I need to holster my firearm. As such, my question is regarding the action of holstering my weapon in the safety and calm of my home, or other such locations. Just like I draw my weapon differently to stow, I holster it differently for normal carry.

Number four,
(this one may seem familiar) I am not here to discuss having the safety on or off during carry. I am only discussing the process of holstering my weapon, and the possibly mechanical dangers or safety dangers that may, or may not, be present during the action of disengaging the safety while the weapon is holstered.

OK, biggest problem I see is holstering a loaded gun with the safety off with your finger inside the trigger guard, do it wrong you just shot yourself. Do whatever you want I don't care but anyone will tell you this is not safe and you asked.

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by Asterix909

But part ofmy concern comes from the fact that I am working the safety in a tight and restricted blind space (in a holster). So I guess I worry it may be possible that while working the safety, that I may fail to fully disengage it; or something like that...? Or perhaps that the pistol may lose it's proper seating in the holster during the process, or something... Does anyone else every adjust their safety on a similar weapon while the weapon is holstered? And have you ever had any issues?

It won't hurt the safety....or the holster.

You may, however, fail to fully disengage it.

Striker fired guns with reasonably heavy triggers that are not single action can be carried with a manual safety in the "off" position. While it could be argued it is "safer" to carry the gun and use the mechanical safety as intended these guns are no less "safe" than revolvers or double action only autos. Single action guns (your gun is Double action only) need manual safeties.

Which....bring us to the point that safety is mostly in the user of the weapon.

So..the easy solution would be to get used to carefully holstering while the safety is in the "off" position if you choose to carry that way. Ride your finger along the frame and watch for anything that could possible intrude upon the firearm and you should be fine.

Lycanvalidquestionthrope

[NineseveN]

Originally Posted by Asterix909

that's the joke, it doesn't have an external safety.

I can't keep its safety on when and while holstered.

As such, it will not become second nature to disengage the safety during draw. By keeping my 'draw' similar between all carry weapons I do not need to remember which weapon I have on me and decide whether or not to draw style one or style 2, I just draw. Not to mention, I practice drawing under varying conditions, in several it would be near impossible to disengage a safety in a timely manner.

If you practice your grip correctly for a weak-side thumb safety, it will also apply to guns without manual safeties.

For instance, I carry an STI 2011, used to carry HK USP's (and probably will again this winter) and 1911's as well, but I've also been known to shoot and carry Walther P99's, Springfield XD's and other guns that have no safety, but my draw and presentation of a 1911/2011/USP is no different than the one I use to draw a Glock or an M&P. The strong hand grips the gun, the weak hand wraps, the weak thumb tucks and points forward along the dustcover/frame and the strong thumb comes over the top and the weak side of the slide where a thumb safety would be, coming down on top of the weak thumb and disengaging the safety if one is present and doing nothing if one is not. A grip sequence that works the safety will still work with a gun that has none, the opposite isn’t necessarily true.

[Asterix909]

Originally Posted by Yoder

OK, biggest problem I see is holstering a loaded gun with the safety off with your finger inside the trigger guard, do it wrong you just shot yourself. Do whatever you want I don't care but anyone will tell you this is not safe and you asked.

ugh... for the second time I didn't ask that:

Originally Posted by Asterix909

I highly suggest you re-read my original post and disregard the other posters int his thread. Come up with your own original answer to my question. I will quote it again, for the third time.

Notice how it mentions nothing about me wanting or desiring or advocating putting a finger anywhere near a trigger? I will re-quote myself again on that subject just to be clear:

Please indicate which part of that statement displayed my eagerness to put my finger near the trigger?
I figured these two points would have cleared this up:

As such, during practice my discover of potentially dangerous situations lead me to inquire about the original superstition that I have the safety engaged during the process of holstering.

Originally Posted by Lycanthrope

So..the easy solution would be to get used to carefully holstering while the safety is in the "off" position if you choose to carry that way. Ride your finger along the frame and watch for anything that could possible intrude upon the firearm and you should be fine.

Thank you. So, if I understand correctly, your vote would be to just 'get over' my superstition and holster it without the safety engaged. You feel there is enough concern that, while taking the extra superstitious measures that I take, something else may go wrong and it therefore warrants breaking the fear?
Thanks

Originally Posted by NineseveN

If you practice your grip correctly for a weak-side thumb safety, it will also apply to guns without manual safeties.

For instance, I carry an STI 2011, used to carry HK USP's (and probably will again this winter) and 1911's as well, but I've also been known to shoot and carry Walther P99's, Springfield XD's and other guns that have no safety, but my draw and presentation of a 1911/2011/USP is no different than the one I use to draw a Glock or an M&P. The strong hand grips the gun, the weak hand wraps, the weak thumb tucks and points forward along the dustcover/frame and the strong thumb comes over the top and the weak side of the slide where a thumb safety would be, coming down on top of the weak thumb and disengaging the safety if one is present and doing nothing if one is not. A grip sequence that works the safety will still work with a gun that has none, the opposite isn’t necessarily true.

Interesting... I am having trouble fully understanding the draw you explain though...
I will need to read it closer once I am at home and able to examine the process. but I guess part of my concern on the topic of this digression is that your draw does not account for when you have only one hand available. I'd be worried about the situation where only my weak side hand is available, drawing from my strong side (so not really cross draw but... drawing across)

[Lycanthrope]

Originally Posted by Asterix909

Thank you. So, if I understand correctly, your vote would be to just 'get over' my superstition and holster it without the safety engaged. You feel there is enough concern that, while taking the extra superstitious measures that I take, something else may go wrong and it therefore warrants breaking the fear?
Thanks


Interesting... I am having trouble fully understanding the draw you explain though...
I will need to read it closer once I am at home and able to examine the process. but I guess part of my concern on the topic of this digression is that your draw does not account for when you have only one hand available. I'd be worried about the situation where only my weak side hand is available, drawing from my strong side (so not really cross draw but... drawing across)

Yes. People holster revolvers every day that have no manual safety. A heavy double action pull is all they have. Get over the fear.....but, nonetheless, always be vigilant when holstering.

The grip/draw he is talking about applies for both one and two handed shooting. He's getting as high on the backstrap as possible with the strong hand..... thumb up high. During the drawstroke the thumb wipes down across the slide (disengaging the safety) and then coming to rest on top of the rear of the weak hand thumb. If there is no weak hand, the thumb just just locks down into the grip. This, however, only applies to guns with downward sweeping safeties (like yours). Basically, you can disengage a safety like that with no penalty in speed with a little practice.

But...in a double action only gun, it's not uncommon to to carry with the thumb safety disengaged.

Lycanyoucangooglepicsthrope