Sig P220 Problem?

[CHEMICAL]

Originally Posted by mikey

I bought the gun from a member here who never shot it, back in February. Here is the thread (New SIG (lots of pics))

I have probably 600 rounds through it so far and have not done anything to the mags, such as cleaned or lubed them.

like the link i posted, the mag actually came from the factory with the spring backwards, tipping the follower at the wrong angle, also doesnt mean the previous owner didnt disassemble the mag just because he never fired it.

[levib]

I've heard from a guy who owns a gun shop nearby and a local constable that Sigs don't always appreciate third party magazines. This was affirmed after I got 2 Promags for my P225 and neither ever feeds the last round. The Sig mag that came with it feeds the last round every time. Little annoying since the Sig mags cost a lot more and I already have these two, but a few bucks is worth being able to depend on your equipment.

Hope you get your problem tracked down!

[1blindref]

A few questions here:
What exactly do you mean when you say the next round didn't chamber?
Did it jam against the feed ramp and not seat properly in the barrel?
What kind of ammo were you using - JHP or FMJ?
Are you using factory mags? (looks like there is one factory 8 round mag in the picture)

I've got a bunch of P220's and have only experienced a failure to feed when I was using Fiocchi ammo. I never had any problems with any of the other ammo.

If you were using the same ammo that you've always used without any problems, then it might have been an out of spec round. Maybe the round was just a bit larger in diameter or there was a burr on the case or bullet that caught on the edge of the feed ramp and that is what may have caused the problem.

There have been other well documented feeding and extracting problems with milled slide (or solid slide) P220s. Those have been narrowed down to the internal extractor design. Sig changed the P220 extractors to the external type like those on the milled slide P229 and P226's. Your P220 is a newer one with the external extractor, so you can rule that out.

I also doubt that you have a worn out mag spring. That gun is too new and from the looks of the wear on the gun, there is no way that there are enough rounds through it to have worn out a mag spring.
I've have never had to replace any of my P220 mag springs and that is going back to 1995 when I bought my first one. I don't even want to begin to guess how many rounds I've got through those original mags.
I also don't think it's a defective spring. If it were, you'd be having the problem more than just once.

I would start by taking the mags apart and making sure the magazine tubes are clean and dry inside. When Sig mags are new from the factory, they ship them with tons of Sig goo inside the mag tube. I've found the best way to clean them is by taking them apart and hosing down the inside of the tube with Gun Scrubber or Brake Cleaner. You can get Brake Cleaner from your local auto parts store at about 1/3 the price of Gun Scrubber and it wont hurt the finish on the mags. After hosing them down, run a small rag through the inside of the mag tube. Wipe down the spring, follower, and base plate with the brake Cleaner / Gun Scrubber. When reassembling the mag, do not use any lube or oil in the tube. Lube or oil just attracts dirt which will cause problems.
When you reassemble the mag, make sure the end of the spring with the narrower coils goes up under the follower. If you need any pictures, let me know. I'll be more than happy to take some for you.

Make sure when you clean your P220, you lube the rails on the slide and the frame. Sigs like to run wet. I use a Q-tip dipped in Hoppes gun oil and run it down both rails on the frame and the slide.

When this is all said and done, I'll bet the problem was with the bullet that didn't feed and not the gun.

Keep us posted.

[mikey]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL

like the link i posted, the mag actually came from the factory with the spring backwards, tipping the follower at the wrong angle, also doesnt mean the previous owner didnt disassemble the mag just because he never fired it.

Bolded part is not possible as the mags were still in their sealed clear plastic bags.

I will check the mags and springs as posted in your link. Thanks for the tip.

[mikey]

Steve and blindref......what I meant when I said the second round didn't chamber was, the first round fired normally and the slide racked and ejected the brass. When I pulled the trigger again, the hammer fell and nothing happened. I turned to ask SBaker and Tootie if they saw the brass eject and they said "yes". So I thought I may have had a light strike and I cocked the hammer again and pulled the trigger and the hammer fell, but nothing happened again. I waited a little bit (bad round?) and dropped the mag. The top round was slightly forward but not past the front edge of the mag. I then racked the slide and there was nothing in the chamber. I then pcked up the other mag and put it in the gun and racked the slide. Then I dropped it out and added the extra round to try to get it to repeat. Everything worked as normal for the whole mag. I then loaded the same mag 2 more times, without a failure. I never tried the other mag again, as I was not thinking about it being the mag. I should have.

The ammo was Federal Premium Law Enforcement Ammunition Tactical HST .45 Auto (+P) Hollow Point 230 Grain P45HST1.

Oh and both mags are factory Sig mags, which I have never had apart. They are probably still full of lube, like the whole gun was when I bought it.

[1blindref]

OK, now I understand. The round never really left the mag.
I don't think it was an ammo problem, you were using the "good stuff".

I'd clean the mags and the gun. Number the mags so you can keep track of which one fails (if it does). I'd run 300 to 400 rounds of assorted cheaper range ammo - maybe Federal American Eagle, WWB, and Remington UMC. If you don't have any problems with those, run another 100 rounds of your carry ammo through it.

If you don't have any problems -chalk it up to dirty mags. If you do, and it's the same mag, maybe the feed lip on the mag is slightly bent or it is a bad spring from the factory.

Good luck and let me know how you make out. I'm interested to see what you find out.

[sid]

I don't have a sig but with my 1911s I find that when loading a full mag with one in the tube (slide forward). The mag is harder to seat because the rounds in the mag have to compress the spring a bit more to compensate for the slide. I haven't had any issues shooting this way but I don't make it a practice to load a full mag with one in the tube. My thought was that if your sig is similar in that it is tight to seat the mag and you had a lower powered round the top round could have slowed the action causing it to short cycle and not strip off the next round. (of course all of this is speculation and may be pointless since you stated you were firing +P ammo.


Sid

[bogleman]

The magazine was not fully seated, you really have to stand on the mag when loading a full magazine on a closed slide. I've fired 1k of the exact same ammo through mine without any problems

I've played with sigs since 95 and I have 3 of my own. I have seen this very similar problem with sigs and other platforms, even if you think you smacked it real good it did not seat and the mag catch was strong enough to hold the magazine to give the impression the magazine was secured.

The big dead giveaway for 9mm is after the shot was fired the magazine simply falls to the ground

[1blindref]

Originally Posted by bogleman

The magazine was not fully seated, you really have to stand on the mag when loading a full magazine on a closed slide. I've fired 1k of the exact same ammo through mine without any problems

I've played with sigs since 95 and I have 3 of my own. I have seen this very similar problem with sigs and other platforms, even if you think you smacked it real good it did not seat and the mag catch was strong enough to hold the magazine to give the impression the magazine was secured.

The big dead giveaway for 9mm is after the shot was fired the magazine simply falls to the ground

Great point! (rep sent)
I've had that happen to me and I completely forgot (that's what happens when you drink while you post ... lol)

The 8 round mags do need to be smacked a little harder than the others to fully seat them. It is possible for the mag to stay in the gun but not be fully seated.

[mikey]

That could very well have been the problem. After it didn't fire and I changed mags, I'm sure I really banged the second mag in, because I was so pissed off that it wasn't working right.