PHILADELPHIA POLICE WILL CARRY MORE POWERFUL WEAPONS

[ALPAPS]

ww.cbs3.com

(my question) is a GLOCK 19 really worth it? or should I go to a GLOCK 23? im starting to have doubts

Philadelphia Police Can Carry More Powerful Guns
PHILADELPHIA (AP) ― Police in Philadelphia will be allowed to carry more powerful weapons starting next month.

Most officers carry Glock pistols that use 9mm ammunition. But starting Jan. 12, they will be allowed to use .40- or .45 caliber Glocks.

Police commissioner Charles Ramsey says officers wanted more options for their service weapons. He also says officers want to feel more comfortable on the streets.

The officers must pay for the more powerful handguns, and they must meet certain qualifications to carry the weapons.

Police union vice president Mike Trask supports the change. He says officers are seeing greater firepower on the streets and want to level the field.

[1blindref]

Thats all well and good, but I think more training and better shot placement is more important than just allowing larger calibers to be carried.

[imperialism2024]

As long as they're paying for the new guns. And the difference in price for ammo for practicing. Hell, I won't stop fools from parting with their money on the belief that there's a substantial difference in power between 9mm, .40, and .45.

[215PHILLYGUY]

Here is something from Gabe Suarez about the attacks in India.


Calibers - Please! I will take a 40 or a 9mm over a 45 any day of the week for the simple fact of the matter that I can fight much longer with one than I can with a seven or eight shot weapon. It may have been a caliber edge in 1976 when the only thing going was marginal hollow point ammo, but not today bwana. Some say that a 9mm is a .45 set on stun, Ask any of those metro-sexual gun instructors if they want to get shot in the face with my "45 set on stun".
Magazine capacity is not an asset, it is a blessing.

Engagement Dynamics - Short range, run and gun, point shooting is an essential skill and must be prioritized for the urban ambush gunfight. However, for anti-terrorist activity, if you find yourself just outside or arm's length with a doped up, combat-trained AK-armed tango, you have already stepped into it. You can still fight, but wouldn't it be far better to be able to ice these monkeys from 25, 50 or even 100 yards?

Read the reports boys. There are folks who had an eye on the action from a distance. "If only I had a gun" was one of the Brit reporters said. The ability to hit out at these distances is not hard at all. But it must be learned and trained. And, your gear must support your ability to do it.

Those uber-court-proof heavy triggers promoted as essential by the lawyer-instructors are trash. Get rid of them. You don't need a hair trigger on your pistol, but you do need a manageable trigger. My Glocks for example all use the standard 5# connector set up and give me a crisp release that is conducive to accuracy. You don't need the 3# target connector, but good heavens don't add one of the abominable New York triggers.

Those big fat close range sights? If you can hit at 100 yards with them, drive on. I cannot, so I use sharply defined black iron sights like the Heines, and the Trijicons. Those of you with eye issues that can't use the irons well enough, invest in one of the Docter red dot sights. Yep....a red dot sight on your pistol. It is small enough to carry around and bright enough that even Mr. Magoo can hit at 100 meters with it.

Another thing - Usually after one of those events I will hear "By golly if I had been there I would have pulled out my custom model 29 and..." That is usually spoken by a guy who hasn't done any physical training since high school, would have a heart attack if he had to run ten feet to cover, and is so out of condition he could not fight his way out of a Sierra Club Tea Party In San Francisco. I'm not trying to offend anyone here but its not just about marksmanship and your ammo choices. If you are already a good shot, you need to get away from the range and into the gym or the street and train your out of shape shooter's body so you will be able to fight not just shoot.

And finally, without which all else is wasted, develop the will to kill. It is hard for some to sneak up on a man and shoot him in the back of the head unannounced, regardless of what the man has done, or is about to do. You need to get over that if you want to be a player at this level. it is not about capturing, or about bringing to justice, or about "stopping the action". it is about getting the drop on a terrorist from a distance, unseen and undetected, putting your sights on his ear, controlling your heartbeat, and then pressing that trigger without a moment's hesitation.

Gabe Suarez

[Whiterook]

Originally Posted by 215PHILLYGUY

Another thing - Usually after one of those events I will hear "By golly if I had been there I would have pulled out my custom model 29 and..." That is usually spoken by a guy who hasn't done any physical training since high school, would have a heart attack if he had to run ten feet to cover, and is so out of condition he could not fight his way out of a Sierra Club Tea Party In San Francisco.

This.


I also think of this a lot when people talk about "The Revolution".

[panther76]

Blame the man behind the trigger before you blame the equipment. That said, let them carry a G21 if they want and they're paying for it.

If Philly is really such a war zone, then maybe they should get their officers out of their cars and put them walking foot patrols in larger groups. Boots on the ground. Give them M4s and IBAs. Make them get to know the bad neighborhoods and put in a visible presence, like "we are here to stay". If you do that, people in the community might be more willing to come forward about crime and give information. And the bad guys will probably scurry away like roaches.

[cobra2411]

I won't stop fools from parting with their money on the belief that there's a substantial difference in power between 9mm, .40, and .45.

There is a perceived increase in power by allowing .40 and .45. How many people believe in their hearts that a 9mm will just bounce off and a .45 will throw you into the next room? Ok, that was an exaggeration but you get the point. Remember that there is not only power in a gun, but also the shadow of a gun. By allowing .40's and .45's people don't know if that Glock is a 17, 22 or 21... They all look about the same at a distance.

Now with that said I have a friend of a friend that's a store owner and he's looking for a gun. He was all set on a .45 for the stopping power and I've explained that there is no real difference and that no one ever in a gun fight has ever said "wow I wish I had less ammo"....

He's still looking at a 1911 because he likes the looks.... But he is seriously looking at a 9mm.

[synergy]

No, there isn't any big reason to get a 23 over a 19.

There are many reasons to get a 19 over a 23, though.

[indianjack]

Originally Posted by cobra2411

There is a perceived increase in power by allowing .40 and .45. How many people believe in their hearts that a 9mm will just bounce off and a .45 will throw you into the next room? Ok, that was an exaggeration but you get the point. Remember that there is not only power in a gun, but also the shadow of a gun. By allowing .40's and .45's people don't know if that Glock is a 17, 22 or 21... They all look about the same at a distance.

Now with that said I have a friend of a friend that's a store owner and he's looking for a gun. He was all set on a .45 for the stopping power and I've explained that there is no real difference and that no one ever in a gun fight has ever said "wow I wish I had less ammo"....

He's still looking at a 1911 because he likes the looks.... But he is seriously looking at a 9mm.

And lets us not forget that we need to practice enough to make muscle memory not conscious thought take over when we get into a tight situation. So the cost of ammo might just effect how much practice you get.

[gunga]

Eh... let them carry the g17 with the 33rd mag