defensive situations - possible reactions/responses?

[RobW]

Originally Posted by TonyF

The yardstick is whether you reasonably believe you are in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

If the threat meets the criteria set forth in the principle of AOJ then it is in fact a "lethal threat" and countering with lethal force is permitted.

To piggyback TonyF's comment, I'd say you need to read and internalize some basic info before you worry about anything 'technical'. If you are carrying a firearm, you need to know this stuff!

Try these:
http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html
http://www.useofforce.us/
Deadly Force in PA

--Rob W.

[msquaredserver]

Originally Posted by skycop

To add my 2 cents. I am a big believer in being vigilant enough to avoid confrontation, rather than using force to end a confrontation.

That is not to say that one should not train and be ready, but don't go looking for trouble. It is also impossible, or at least very difficult to be completely proactive when we are dealing with self defense, or a deadly force scenario. Often times we are forced to be reactive, and that is where training comes in.

However, when I was on the street I would run through scenarios in my head of situations I might be involved in, and it does help. Also try not to get caught up in the mindset of believing that every situation will have a square peg in a square hole solution.

Practice the basics, operate in condition yellow at all times, and never be a hero.

good points that i did not clarify. to answer my dads question in response to me getting a handgun "who do you think you are, clint eastwood?" no, i do not think i am clint eastwood, batman, or any other caped or otherwise crusader.

but in a situation where someone whipped out a gun, firing wildly into the air, i would act proactively to protect myself and possibly others. of course this depends on the situation. there are many variables including my proximity to the threat, my accuracy, speed, and overall ability to handle my firearm, as well as many other variables.

if someone started shooting, i would NEVER head towards the gunfire. my options would be run run run or stand ground and defend myself. i am going to sign up for the nra personal protection in and out of the home classes as soon as humanly possible. i don't want to be a hero, but when necessary, i want to BE ABLE to take action instead of being a helpless victim.

and seriously, i don't have a cape. at least not one that i go out in public in.

[skycop]

Originally Posted by msquaredserver

good points that i did not clarify. to answer my dads question in response to me getting a handgun "who do you think you are, clint eastwood?" no, i do not think i am clint eastwood, batman, or any other caped or otherwise crusader.

but in a situation where someone whipped out a gun, firing wildly into the air, i would act proactively to protect myself and possibly others. of course this depends on the situation. there are many variables including my proximity to the threat, my accuracy, speed, and overall ability to handle my firearm, as well as many other variables.

if someone started shooting, i would NEVER head towards the gunfire. my options would be run run run or stand ground and defend myself. i am going to sign up for the nra personal protection in and out of the home classes as soon as humanly possible. i don't want to be a hero, but when necessary, i want to BE ABLE to take action instead of being a helpless victim.

and seriously, i don't have a cape. at least not one that i go out in public in.

I was not trying to put you down in my post, but the basics would or should include all of the things you mentioned in your post. Ultimately you would not think to do the things you listed, it should be second nature to seek cover and size up the situation. As a former Baltimore street cop I was personally involved in two shootings, and present a a few more police shootings, and handled more homicides than I can remember.

The point is, the reason you have the questions in the first place is because your training is not yet sufficient to enough to answer them. Don't take that as a jab, but we are talking about shooting people and people shooting you, so having a thick skin is a good place to start. Definitely get some good training under your belt and build from there. The realities of this topic have far reaching ramifications that are impossible for me to relay to you by simply writing in this forum.

Maybe you can work something out with mercop in terms of training. He has been there and done it. We went to the police academy together, and the guy is the real deal. Be safe out there bud.

[msquaredserver]

Originally Posted by skycop

I was not trying to put you down in my post, but the basics would or should include all of the things you mentioned in your post. Ultimately you would not think to do the things you listed, it should be second nature to seek cover and size up the situation. As a former Baltimore street cop I was personally involved in two shootings, and present a a few more police shootings, and handled more homicides than I can remember.

The point is, the reason you have the questions in the first place is because your training is not yet sufficient to enough to answer them. Don't take that as a jab, but we are talking about shooting people and people shooting you, so having a thick skin is a good place to start. Definitely get some good training under your belt and build from there. The realities of this topic have far reaching ramifications that are impossible for me to relay to you by simply writing in this forum.

Maybe you can work something out with mercop in terms of training. He has been there and done it. We went to the police academy together, and the guy is the real deal. Be safe out there bud.

i said "i want to BE ABLE to take action instead of being a helpless victim"

not "i am ABLE to take action instead of being a helpless victim"



thanks for the reply and info. i am very much aware that my gun wouldn't be a useful strategy right now, but that's why i'm spending 50-100 rounds a day (in the freezing ass cold too haha) strengthening my abilities. hell, i'm even tracking my progress in excel . after all, two weeks ago, every shot fired at the range made me jump - in a real life-or-death situation i don't think my years of accumulated video game skills would turn me into a mean lean life saving machine. and the thought of a bullet through my head at 21 makes me queasy right now, i can't imagine what i'd be thinking in a situation like that.

when it comes down to it, i bought my gun and got my ccw for a reason - to protect myself. and i feel that if i don't train myself to be a disciplined firearm owner and operator, all that will be for naught. i definitely want to take a class - just have to wait for my christmas bonus

[RobW]

Originally Posted by msquaredserver

when it comes down to it, i bought my gun and got my ccw for a reason - to protect myself. and i feel that if i don't train myself to be a disciplined firearm owner and operator, all that will be for naught. i definitely want to take a class - just have to wait for my christmas bonus

While you are saving up the mooolah for training, I'd suggest you give IDPA a try. It will help you with your gunhandling skills, you'll get a little taste of firing when the adrenaline is pumping, and it's FUN. There is a match this Sunday about a 1/2 hour from you that I am going to attend, PM me if interested in checking it out.

--Rob W.

[MMH]

Originally Posted by RobW

To piggyback TonyF's comment, I'd say you need to read and internalize some basic info before you worry about anything 'technical'. If you are carrying a firearm, you need to know this stuff!

Try these:
http://www.constitution.org/grossack/arrest.htm
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/lethalforce.html
http://www.useofforce.us/
Deadly Force in PA

--Rob W.

Good links!

[mercop]

I think it is a good thing that you are asking for opinions and advice. As you already stated forums are no substitute for training and most training you are likely to come across will likely cover the selection, carry and use of firearms of there accessories. The missing element is when and how to deploy your firearm.

You can post any scenario you wish, any one that replies that they "know" what they would do is kidding themselves IMHO. If you give a scenario and ask people what they would do, then put them in the situation and have them respond, and then have them tell you what they did and film the whole thing, you will find that what they thought they would do, what they did, and what they thought they did will be very different in most cases. These are rapidly evolving dynamic situations.

Your personal doctrine should be principle based and adaptable instead of task specific.

At least two people in this thread have been involved in a shooting and taken a human life. The experience that comes from this can not be expressed in words.