Glocks Are CRAP says Police

[fultonCoShooter]

Haven Police Ditch Glocks After Two Explode
Two of 90 Glock Model 37 pistols blew up in separate training incidents a year apart.


WINTER HAVEN | The Police Department is ditching $38,000 worth of guns after two .45-caliber GAP Glock Model 37 pistols exploded in separate training incidents a year a part, causing minor injuries to an officer and a cadet.

"I've been around 34 years in law enforcement, and we've seen malfunctioning with guns, but never seen it explode," Police Chief Mark LeVine said.

"When I've got two guns out of 90 mess up, something's wrong."

The department has not had any problems with the guns during use in the line of duty.

The force of the explosions came down through the bottom of the guns and blew the triggers off, LeVine said.

Police Officer Frank Scianimanico, 32, and then-cadet Rodrique Jean-Louis, 20, suffered bruised fingers in the separate incidents.

As a result, the department will try an all-metal gun as a possible replacement for the plastic Glock during weapons testing Tuesday and March 20.

LeVine issued a memo Feb. 1 to his officers saying that if anyone was uncomfortable carrying the Glock they could carry a personal weapon instead, as long as the gun meets the department's requirements.

The department tried to work out a solution with Glock. The gun's Georgia-based manufacturer offered to swap out the nearly 2 1/2-year-old guns if the department paid the company $10,000.

But LeVine said that is unfair.

"I personally question if it should cost us anything at all," the chief said.

A Glock spokesman said the company is aware of the Winter Haven incidents, but hasn't had the opportunity to examine the guns yet.

"Without looking at the pistol, there's no way for us to make a determination," said Glock spokesman Carlos Guevara.



FIRST EXPLOSION

The first incident occurred in January 2007 when a Glock exploded while being used by Jean-Louis, a former cadet the department was sponsoring at the Polk Community College Kenneth C. Thompson Institute of Public Safety, which trains prospective police officers.

Department officials dismissed the incident as the fault of bad ammunition, and so did Glock.

The second incident, the one involving Scianiamancio, was this January during training at the department's shooting range at the Winter Haven Airport.

"We had another explode in the same fashion," LeVine said. "We've only got 90 guns, and two failed. It has caused a certain amount of uneasiness."

The issue seems to be with the gun, which only Glock makes, LeVine said.

The Polk County Sheriff's Office uses a different Glock, the .40-caliber Model 22 pistol, but there haven't been any incidents with it, said spokeswoman Carrie Rodgers.

The Sheriff's Office switched last year to the Glocks after using Smith & Wessons. The Glocks cost the agency $350 per gun, compared with $560 for the .45-caliber Smith & Wessons deputies were using.

"They're easier to fire, more accurate, and they hold more ammunition," Rodgers said.

Lake Alfred Police Chief Art Bodenheimer said he would never let his officers use a Glock after he saw a video demonstration of one being partially disassembled after being jammed.

His officers use Smith & Wessons instead, because it is an all-metal gun, compared to the plastic Glock, he said.

"I'm not a Glock enthusiast," Bodenheimer said.

The Winter Haven Police Department isn't the only one that has had problem with Glocks. At least two other law enforcement agencies have reported issues.

elsewhere in u.s.

Two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers at the Portland Police Department, according to a 2004 article in The Oregonian newspaper. That department then switched to 9 mm Glocks.

In 2006, The Oregonian reported an officer who was injured when his gun exploded filed a multi-million-dollar lawsuit against Glock and the ammunition manufacturer.

In Pennsylvania, a training officer with the Upper Darby Township Police Department said his department used to carry the Glock Model 21 before it started jamming.

The department is now testing a different model of Glock. "We can't get a reason why it keeps happening," he said.

Guevara said Glock's guns aren't defective, and malfunctioning incidents at other agencies are attributed to ammunition or maintenance of the guns.

And the fact that the Portland Police Department switched to a different Glock model is an indication of how good Glock guns are, Guevara said.

[knight0334]

Unsupported chamber KB's??

The use of 45GAP which operates at higher pressures than a 45ACP only increases the chances of a KB on guns with unsupported chambers.

[gold cup abuser]

this is from someone smarter than I........

courtsey of 1911.com

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/sear...der=descending

Larry Vickers

Sand Test
Just had a chance to do a harsh sand test on few different handguns. This test was not scientific but was very enlightening.

Pistols tested were; HK USP Tactical
Customized 1911
rack grade GI 1911
Glock 21

Test consisted of placing each pistol loaded in a Bianchi GI field holster inside a plastic bag with approx 2 cups of fine/medium grit sand ( North Carolina type). Then the bag was shaken vigorously for 10 seconds while holding onto the pistol butt for safety. The pistol was then taken out and 3 mags were fired through the 1911 and 2 fully loaded mags were fired through the HK and Glock - roughly the same amount of ammo. The sand coverage was very good and uniformly covered the pistols. The pistols were loaded in the mode you would expect in a field environment - condition 3 for the 1911, loaded for the Glock and loaded in DA mode for the USP.A test was done dry and lubed with TW 25B. This test represented EXTREME sand conditions - not normal field use, even in sandy conditions.A brief rundown of the results follow;

1)Carrying your gun dry in this environment is a NO GO despite what some will say. All pistols performed worse dry than lubed.

2)All pistols required some manipulation in order to fire - none would function normally straight out of the holster.

3)Overall the HK USP performed the best - the performance of it dry was roughly the same as the customized 1911 but was definately the best lubed. Overall it performed well.

4)The custom 1911 was second - interestingly enough the trigger track was not a real problem - the sand that went in through the ejection port to the bottom lugs area caused the most problems. Once the sand shifted in this area the pistol functioned better.

5)The rack grade GI 1911 was a distant third - the custom 1911 had an 18 pound recoil spring and that helped with feeding greatly vs the rack grade gun. Swap out the recoil spring and it probably would have done better.

6)The shocker of the day - the Glock 21 FAILED terribly. The big problem was failure of the trigger to reset. Also at times the pistol would not fire due to sand in the trigger mechanism. The dry test could not even be completed with the Glock due to this.This surprised all of us as we expected the Glock to do quite well.

Moral of the story; The 1911, even in its customized mode, can get the job done if you set it up to succeed. Lube it right, carry it in the right holster and in the proper mode, and it won't let you down - just like it hasn't for nearly a 100 years.

The HK USP series are good guns - well designed and well made - for service pistols. The ergonomics hurt the pistol dramatically but for an out of the box service pistol/field gun, they get my endorsement.

The Glock 21 is a dog - always has been. It has the rep of being the worst gun Glock makes. I have a Glock 17 and 19 and like them for what they are - but don't get sucked into the Glock hype - they are not magical guns. Remember what your dad said when you were in 3rd grade; don't believe everything you read.

Hope you guys got something out of this - I did.

Larry Vickers

[MOUNTAINORACLE]

That's your Glock Perfection


oracle

[Hawk]

Wow, I better make sure I don't "shake and bake" my Glock's in a bag of sand.

[Rule10b5]

Setback, 45GAP (which is as prone as the .40 to setback, if not more), and simple nature of the beast -- KBs happen with all guns, all the time.

We just hear about them more with Glocks simply because there are so many of them and it doesn't have detachable grips to blow off, so the grip breaks instead.

Whine, whine, whine. No gun is perfect, nor immune to the issue -- or any issue. Hell, I've had to send $2000+ 1911s in for reliability work, and have had box stock AND tuned Gold Cups choke bad enough so as to be unusable.

Worrying about a KB as a serious concern is like seriously planning for what you'd do with the money if you hit the Powerball. Amusing and diverting, but little more than intellectual masturbation when you get right down to it.

Plus, do you REALLY think you're going to change any minds? Like this is a new issue. OMFG, GLOCK isn't Purrfect, LULZ!!!

And IIRC, Vickers carries a 19 with with pretty fair degree of regularity. If they're good enough for him at least some of the time, and good enough for Ayoob, they're good enough for me to rotate with my 1911s.

[Gary in Pennsylvania]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Worrying about a KB as a serious concern is like seriously planning for what you'd do with the money if you hit the Powerball. Amusing and diverting, but little more than intellectual masturbation when you get right down to it.

LOL!
Great analogy.

[fultonCoShooter]

So what are the odds 2 out of 90 guns KB so far in one department??? compared to powerball?

i would think you have better odds of a glock KABOOM than winning the powerball

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by fultonCoShooter

So what are the odds 2 out of 90 guns KB so far in one department??? compared to powerball?

i would think you have better odds of a glock KABOOM than winning the powerball

I was making a joke, goober, which is why I gave you rep.

Whether 2 out of 90 KB in one department is meaningless from a statistical standpoint because it isn't indicative of the greater whole.

That is, the sample is too small to be a useful predictor to Glocks in general, or even the G37. And without a definitive cause attributable to the gun itself, there's no way of saying that it is not due to other factors (particularly given that ammunition was expressly attributed as the cause of the first one in the article). So even the limited sample you have is necessarily flawed. Purgamentum init, exit purgamentum, ya know.

Quite frankly there's little I dislike more than bad or misleading statistics -- because they are too often used to cloak anecdote in the imprimatur of reason. And that's what the article and the Chief are trying to do -- bash the whole based on a limited sample from which they can't even discern a specific cause.

While I like Glocks, I'm not a raging devotee. I just haven't seen anything yet that establishes that Glocks are any more or less likely to KB than any other gun -- it's just that the results are more dramatic looking due to the design of the gun so people remember it.

As Pat Sweeney (I think) said, well, when a 1911 KBs, you just buy new grips, screws, bushings, and throw out the mag.

[RandomTask]

Originally Posted by fultonCoShooter

elsewhere in u.s.

Two .45-caliber Glock Model 21 pistols exploded in the hands of two officers at the Portland Police Department, according to a 2004 article in The Oregonian newspaper. That department then switched to 9 mm Glocks.

I especially loved this one. Instead of switching to a perceived safer gun in a similar caliber, they stayed with the same brand and went down a couple notches.