.38+p vs 9mm

[Weights]

Generally speaking, between the .38+p in a snubbie revolver, and a 9mm in a small gun like a Kel-Tec or Roharbaugh, which caliber has the better stopping power for self-defense?

[MarcS]

about the same....just like any other service handgun caliber.

[The Drew]

9mm has the slight edge, but new ammunition from speer makes the snubbies perform VERY well.

[Rule10b5]

You can drive a 110 gr. bullet out of a snubbie .38 revolver at about 1200 fps, tops.

You can drive a 115 gr. bullet out of a snubbie 9mm auto at about 1250 fps, tops.

I don't know anyone who can tell the difference between 5 grains, 50 fps, and .002" in diameter.

Carry whichever you can shoot better (assuming equal reliability), practice as much as you can, and don't worry about caliber or stopping power. All handguns stink, and the 9mm and .38 are practically identical in terms of exterior ballistics.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Rule10b5

Carry whichever you can shoot better (assuming equal reliability), practice as much as you can, and don't worry about caliber or stopping power. All handguns stink, and the 9mm and .38 are practically identical in terms of exterior ballistics.

My personal opinion: all this caliber angst is a way of substituting a problem you can buy a solution for (ammo) for a problem that requires real work and effort (practice and training). The same people making 30 posts about caliber are often the same people not signing up for training, even though the latter is about 100x more important to your survival than caliber.

This is captured by Jeff Cooper's perfect phrase: "the error of PII (Preoccupation with Inconsequential Increments)."

[Chazman321]

Me, I would choose the 9mm over the .38+P because quite simply, 9mm is cheaper to shoot. The more you shoot, the more skill you get. Many people make the mistake at shooting at one target straight infront of them. Don't be that person. Setup multiple targets at different angles from center, and at varying distances, and practice like that. In the real world, will you need to defend yourself from 5 or more attackers? Probably not, but you never know, and I can promise you that they all won't be directly infront of you.

Training is good for some but the age old question is always "What constitutes training"? I've never attended a formal class, but I can shoot 8 targets, 2 rounds a piece center of mass behind barricades in 10.99 seconds. Training is relative. Put a couple thousand rounds through the gun you plan to carry and get tips and pointers from more established shooters, and you'll go far...

chazwatchthefrontsightdotman321

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Chazman321

Training is good for some but the age old question is always "What constitutes training"? I've never attended a formal class, but I can shoot 8 targets, 2 rounds a piece center of mass behind barricades in 10.99 seconds.

One thing training would show you, swiftly, is that standing still and engaging 5 targets = death. Training would also help you automate responses so that you get off the "X" quickly, can deal with a gun that doesn't fire, find out what works and doesn't work tactically, preferably before your actual life is the wager.

[WhiteWolf]

I agree that they are about the same. You can get some 9mm +p+ that look to smoke any 38, but I would hesitate to fire them out of a small 9mm as they just weren't built to handle that kind of ammo.

For me a bigger choice is revolver vs semi. As I'm not in a war zone, or philly, I decided to choose 5 sure shots over 8 probable ones. I know, I know, semi's are "more reliable now" which assumes at some point they weren't and some still aren't. It's a personal choice and one you have to make and feel comfortable with.

[Cheeseybacon]

I've always wondered why 9mm has an advantage over .38 special. I can understand that most factory load vs. factory load, 9mm is probably hotter than the typical .38 as it has always been a high-pressure round, but what about reloading? Both use more or less the same bullet, but the .38 has a much bigger case behind it, which to me says it could be hand-loaded to levels way hotter than the best that 9mm could dish out. Is it a matter of gun limitations, rather than cartridge limitations? As in the typical autolaoder can handle a super hot 9mm load better than the typical revolver can handle a super hot .38?

[Rule10b5]

Originally Posted by Cheeseybacon

I've always wondered why 9mm has an advantage over .38 special. I can understand that most factory load vs. factory load, 9mm is probably hotter than the typical .38 as it has always been a high-pressure round, but what about reloading? Both use more or less the same bullet, but the .38 has a much bigger case behind it, which to me says it could be hand-loaded to levels way hotter than the best that 9mm could dish out. Is it a matter of gun limitations, rather than cartridge limitations? As in the typical autolaoder can handle a super hot 9mm load better than the typical revolver can handle a super hot .38?

.38 Special can be hand loaded well beyond 9mm, no doubt. Provided you're going to use it only out of a revolver strong enough to handle it. If you recall, the .38-44 was nothing more than a heavy duty .38 revolver using identical length brass. Elmer Keith was getting in the 1400-1450 fps range with 158 gr. (or 168 gr., I forget) bullets out of a .38-44. It wasn't stronger brass that made this possible -- it was stronger revolvers.

Nobody loads .38 that hot anymore, though, because it's too easy to accidentally dump it into a regular .38 revolver and kill yourself.

Edit to add: While I've loaded hot .38 in the past, I've never gone as hot as the Keith loads, and I won't do it anymore. It's too easy to mix up the rounds (or to have someone else pick up your rounds) and get hurt. It doesn't seem like a big deal, until you watch a buddy shooting a vintage .38 snubbie that isn't even rated for +p reach for a box of your uber-hot handloads, thinking they're regular target ammo. It's easier for me just to load .357 cases when I want .357 velocity.