Mrs. CJ wants a home defense & carry option for herself.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by dgg9

Don't confuse perceived recoil with stopping power...

No, i'm not. I unfortunately saw first hand what this little gun can do. It ain't pretty.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by reverserboy

.38 snub......"tremendous stopping power"...I don't think so. I would not even say that about either of my .45s or my 10mm. I'll save that for my 12 gauge shottys.

With the right loads...your 9mm probably hits harder.

As far as punchy....try a snub (all steel.....lightweight guns in this caliber are not for the faint of heart) in .357mag. It's a bit snotty when it goes off. I like mine although it's not a gun you would shoot all day. After about 40 rounds the web of my hand starts to hurt......good motivation to shoot a few rounds lefty...which I believe everyone should do. Try one if you can. You may end up trading your .38.

Sometimes good carry guns don't make good range guns.

My point is don't be overconfident in that .38 as a stopper. It's not much more than a .380 if at all out of a short barrel. Be aware of its limitations.

Oh, I agree a million percent. I couldn't shoot that .38 all day long. I would need a new hand. The .9mm I could shoot all day long. I shot the .357, I liked it, what I didn't like was the little bit of fire, that scared me.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Michele

No, i'm not. I unfortunately saw first hand what this little gun can do. It ain't pretty.

No doubt, but that shouldn't be confused with "tremendous stopping power," since by any real metric, the .38 Spc is on the medium-low end of that scale.

Rule #1 of the scientific world: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

[Michele]

Originally Posted by dgg9

No doubt, but that shouldn't be confused with "tremendous stopping power," since by any real metric, the .38 Spc is on the medium-low end of that scale.

Rule #1 of the scientific world: the plural of "anecdote" is not "data."

I appreciate the lesson, I really do. Really, I wouldn't want to get shot with either.
In my experience, i've seen people shot with .9mm and just bled like stuffed pigs.
The .38 well.....................
Just a couple of my many ugly NYC experiences.
I still trust my .38 for stopping power more so than my .9mm. Maybe its just me but the .38 seems more accurate.
No matter what gun you choose for carry, hopefully you'll only need one shot if SHTF. I guess in a panic situation or a SHTF situation recoil will be you last concern. You can put some ice on you hand later, right?

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Michele

In my experience, i've seen people shot with .9mm and just bled like stuffed pigs.

Shot with 9mm (not ".9mm" btw) ...what? FMJ? HPs? Which HPs? You have to know at least that much before making ANY generalizations.

Point of fact, most people shot with handguns do live. The issue is, what incapacitates your attacker the fastest? A .38 Spc round will probably not expand, so you'll have a .357" hole, neatly drilled. A 9mm likely will expand, so you'lll have a .5 - .6" hole, less neatly drilled.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Michele

Maybe its just me but the .38 seems more accurate.

All due respect, but yes it IS you. Almost no shooters can shoot to the inherent accuracy of their guns. And slow fire accuracy at the range has zero connection to what your dynamic accuracy will be in a real event.

No matter what gun you choose for carry, hopefully you'll only need one shot if SHTF.

This is a very dangerous fantasy to bet on.

I guess in a panic situation or a SHTF situation recoil will be you last concern.

If the recoil means that your follow on shots all miss, then in a way, it will be your ...last... concern.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by dgg9

Shot with 9mm (not ".9mm" btw) ...what? FMJ? HPs? Which HPs? You have to know at least that much before making ANY generalizations.

Point of fact, most people shot with handguns do live. The issue is, what incapacitates your attacker the fastest? A .38 Spc round will probably not expand, so you'll have a .357" hole, neatly drilled. A 9mm likely will expand, so you'lll have a .5 - .6" hole, less neatly drilled.

Actually I am not stating any facts. And you perfectly right, most do live. I'm not arguing fact or even experiences. I just know what i've seen. You make excellent points, you really do. You know a hell of allot more than me about calibers and guns and ammo.
But shouldn't we be concerned about what to carry? What would work well for each individual, and how well they preform while using their firearm. Any gun is deadly, right?
Like I said, I love my .9mm. I switch off from ball and hollows. I surprise myself in my mags by mixing. And truthfully, I can't tell the difference. The gun preforms the same way with either ammo. The .38 on the other hand feels much different to me when I use different ammo. FMJ and SJ hollows. I guess its up to the individual. Hey, i'm not here to argue anyones logic. I can't i'm not that experienced. I just wouldn't recommend a snubby for a woman. They hurt. Sometimes I look at the .38 and say how could something so cute hurt so much.
Do you think a .38 is puny? Or do you think a .38 is a good choice for a woman?

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Michele

Do you think a .38 is puny? Or do you think a .38 is a good choice for a woman?

I can't answer that question. I can say, with reasonable provability, that .38 SPc is a marginal round, ballistically. I can also say, again measurably, that for most people, a snubbie is not easy to shoot fast and well. I can also show, via Force on Force, that you will be VERY unlikely to reload anything, much leass a revolver, in any kind of out-in-the-open gunfight. Add that last sentence to the .38's marginal stopping power and low capacity, and you have some information.

Yet those who say that the fraction of gunfights where all this matters is relatively small are perfectly correct.

I will say this: if you don't enjoy shooting it, you probably won't, or you'll shoot it far less than a gun you do enjoy shooting. Since practice and training matter far more than gear (once the gear reaches an aceptable minimum, which the snubbie certainly does), you should pick the gun you're willing to shoot more. Then carry that.

[Michele]

Originally Posted by dgg9

All due respect, but yes it IS you. Almost no shooters can shoot to the inherent accuracy of their guns. And slow fire accuracy at the range has zero connection to what your dynamic accuracy will be in a real event.



This is a very dangerous fantasy to bet on.



If the recoil means that your follow on shots all miss, then in a way, it will be your ...last... concern.

EXCELLENT POINTS!

I guess we really can't be sure about any gun in a "situation". Hell, we couldn't even be sure about ourselves in a SHTF situation.
Although, aren't you supposed to wait until the "event" comes extremely close to draw and use your weapon. If you used it in the house wouldn't it be close? Hopefully at close range, any gun will work for defense.
Recoil, I would hope that I could handle it in an event.
Hopefully none of us ever have to find out how good our gun is or how well we shoot except for at the range.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by Michele

Although, aren't you supposed to wait until the "event" comes extremely close to draw and use your weapon. If you used it in the house wouldn't it be close?

There's waiting and there's waiting. Yes, you can't use deadly force (for the most part -- permit me to simplify) until it is used against you. BUT you can certainly develop the situational awareness to know what is happening, to force your potential assailant to declare his intentions through action, and to manage the event to buy yourself more time and distance.

Hopefully at close range, any gun will work for defense.

Distance doesn't really matter wrt ballistics here. The more telling factor is that you will likely NOT have the time to take a relaxed, posed stance and make gun-range shots. You should be moving, and under the tempo of events, you're not going to get perfect COM shots. Heck, in a retention battle, you may have to shoot at any target you can.

Recoil, I would hope that I could handle it in an event.

If you can't handle it now, you won't handle it then. Never assume you'll do better when the balloon goes up.