AR-15 OWNERS – take note of immanent PSP regulations changes

[dsnover]

Originally Posted by BTA88

Not to sound like a firebrand or anything, but that's our job. If we (The People) don't keep them in check, nobody will.

Not to restate it too many times, but again, the civil rights violations continue because many times there is little or no 'damage' done to the individual, and so: No 'real' damage = no financial result = no lawyer willing to take the case on contingency. Therefore, the cost to right the wrong is borne by the individual. The 'State' doesn't feel the impact of the case, as they are paying their lawyers (and judges) anyway. I've dealt with this personally, and frankly, I don't have the big bucks it takes to move a case like this through the system, and probably many of you are in the same situation (for whatever reasons). It's a high-stakes game, where the deck is firmly stacked against 'the People', especially in the lower courts.

(just my opinion....)

[GunLawyer001]

Originally Posted by Guns4Fun

The good news (if there is any) about this is that if you do buy a new AR rifle and they require the pistol form to be filled out anyhow - you should be able to open or conceal carry that new AR - they can't have it both ways .

Also, you can now drive around with your loaded AR in the car too if you have a LTCF.

If they want to classify it as a pistol - even though it isn't - we sure should be able to carry it like a pistol.
. . .

Unfortunately, no, they CAN in fact have it both ways, because you're looking at different statutes. The term "firearm" already has a variety of meanings within the UFA, sometimes it means anything that can spit bullets (as in, what prohibited persons can't have), sometimes it just means handguns, sometimes it excludes antiques and other times it doesn't.

So the legislature is capable of defining a knife as a "firearm" for one purpose, while limiting "firearms" to fully-automatic rifles of .308 caliber or larger in another statute. There only has to be consistency where statutes have some necessary interplay.

But without a statutory basis, the governor can't just instruct the PSP to change the law. Fast Eddie isn't a king, he's a governor, albeit one with federal aspirations who's using Pennsylvania as a launching platform, the way he used Philadelphia to get to the governor's mansion.

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by renegadephoenix

here you go:

Oh, so YOU'RE the guys who ruined it for the rest of us!

[pyld]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

I stand corrected on the AG working for the Governor. However, although elected independently, as Chief LEO of PA the AG's office is part of the Executive Branch of government. As such, I believe my concern is still valid, as we're talking about one office potentially investigating another office within the same branch of government. Kinda like the fox watching the hen house.

Tom C. is getting heat because he investigated members of the PA house and their staff. That said, he's going to want the PSP's support when he runs for governor, and probably won't do anything.

The only way to resolve this is going to be to sue the PSP in court.

[rwilson452]

I would suggest a bunch of FFLs get together and file a class action suit.

[Jackal]

How would this effect a face to face transaction? Are face to face ar-15 sales now illegal?

[AKsRule]

I sent an Email today - and intend to make a PHONE CALL on Monday

AND TODAY I sent THIS paper letter to the AG

---------

Mr. Tom Corbett
Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General
16th floor, Strawberry Square
Harrisburg PA 17120

Dear Mr. Corbett:

I am writing to ask you to investigate actions taken by Gov. Rendell and the Pennsylvania State Police which are having the effect of restricting the second amendment rights of honest Pennsylvanians and jeopardizing the rule of law in this commonwealth.

At the apparent direction of the governor the PSP has been requiring that all AR-15 type Rifles and Receivers sold by federally licensed firearm dealers in Pennsylvania be recorded on the same form used for FIREARM (handgun) sales , and that the forms be sent to them. There has also been the suggestion that PRIVATE sales of these rifles between citizens should also be recorded just as FIREARMS ( handguns) now are.

Since Pennsylvania law DOES NOT define these rifles as firearms, and DOES NOT require records be made of private long gun sales, these actions appear to be Illegal.

Your record as Attorney General has made it obvious to me that you support the peoples rights in this area ( and I thank you for that ) so I am confident you will take whatever action is necessary to preserve the integrity of our legal guarantees.

Sincerely,

[Emptymag]

Originally Posted by AKsRule

I sent an Email today - and intend to make a PHONE CALL on Monday

AND TODAY I sent THIS paper letter to the AG

---------

Mr. Tom Corbett
Pennsylvania Office of Attorney General
16th floor, Strawberry Square
Harrisburg PA 17120

Dear Mr. Corbett:

I am writing to ask you to investigate actions taken by Gov. Rendell and the Pennsylvania State Police which are having the effect of restricting the second amendment rights of honest Pennsylvanians and jeopardizing the rule of law in this commonwealth.

At the apparent direction of the governor the PSP has been requiring that all AR-15 type Rifles and Receivers sold by federally licensed firearm dealers in Pennsylvania be recorded on the same form used for FIREARM (handgun) sales , and that the forms be sent to them. There has also been the suggestion that PRIVATE sales of these rifles between citizens should also be recorded just as FIREARMS ( handguns) now are.

Since Pennsylvania law DOES NOT define these rifles as firearms, and DOES NOT require records be made of private long gun sales, these actions appear to be Illegal.

Your record as Attorney General has made it obvious to me that you support the peoples rights in this area ( and I thank you for that ) so I am confident you will take whatever action is necessary to preserve the integrity of our legal guarantees.

Sincerely,

Well sir, you've done more than those of us who just bitch about it.

Thank you.

[unclejumbo]

Originally Posted by pyld

Tom C. is getting heat because he investigated members of the PA house and their staff. That said, he's going to want the PSP's support when he runs for governor, and probably won't do anything.

The only way to resolve this is going to be to sue the PSP in court.

Honestly, do you really think PSP gives a damn one way or the other. Rendell says "do it" and our command staff says "you got it boss"; the commissioner is a cabinet position, the deputies are appointed, and they serve at the pleasure of the governor. I can promise you Tom Corbett will get the lion's share of PSP votes.

[WhiteFeather]

AS PROMISED

Here is the July update from FOAC - ACSL on the AR-15 more to follow!!!

Plus a plan for direct action for us all to take is in the works....

http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/n-le...ee_reports.htm

http://www.foac-pac.org/

PA State Police (aka Rendell) to DEMAND
AR-15 Rifle Registration

The situation with AR-15 rifles is as follows: over the past several months I've been informed by gun dealers across the state of Pennsylvania that the Pennsylvania State police have been informing them that they must now register AR-15 rifles and other identifying information on the record of sale form just like they do with handguns. The interesting part of this is that they are failed to provide anything in writing. As time has progressed the Pennsylvania State police have been informing dealers that the release of this radical, illegal shift in policy would be forthcoming in the FFL dealer’s newsletter in mid July.

Fast forward to this week; two days ago I was informed by George Romanoff of Ace Sporting Goods and a representative of the National Shooting Sports Foundation that gun dealers would be notified of this new policy within two weeks.

The essence of this argument is that Pennsylvania law does not allow them (meaning to do it is ‘against’ the law) to demand this information and specifically excludes long gun, rifle and shotgun, from the requirement to complete the record of sale form for these purchases. Pennsylvania firearms dealers who comply with this policy dictate could, technically, themselves, be guilty of violating Pennsylvania law (which is a misdemeanor 1 crime-see section 6119) along with the Pennsylvania State police. PA Law (Title 18) States in pertinent part (see below):

§6111. Sale or transfer of firearms.

(1.4) Following implementation of the instantaneous records check by the Pennsylvania State Police on or before December 1, 1998, no application/record of sale shall be completed for the purchase or transfer of a firearm which exceeds the barrel lengths set forth in section 6102.

§6102. Definitions.
"Firearm." . . . .any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches.

As you can see from the above sections of law, the Pennsylvania State Police have NO authority or justification for this new policy. Frankly this is a war that is being conducted and waged against gun owners in this state that originates directly from the executive office mansion and Ed Rendell.

It is, and has been, our position that the Pennsylvania Instant Check System (PICS) is an anachronism and an unnecessarily expensive distraction in this modern age and needs to be disbanded. We can turn over the functions of firearms instant checks to the National Instant Check System (NICS) which will not only do it for free but with far less complications to the gun buyer as well as the FFL dealer. The national instant check system is utilized by 38 states without any demonstrable problems.

There will be much, much more coming out in the next several weeks and I ask for your help in notifying gun owners about this problem. I know gun owners will wonder why this is a problem but let me give you an example of a situation that could be encountered by any owner of these firearms. If you are traveling home or to arrange and get stopped by a police officer for any reason and during the course of this stop he sees that you have firearms in your vehicle. It is more than likely that he/she will decide to run each firearm against the Pennsylvania State police record of sale database (you know that illegal one that they continue to maintain at a cost to PA Taxpayers of over $500,000 a year). When the report comes back to the officer in the field that your favorite AR-15 is not registered in this Pennsylvania State Police Gun Registration System then in all likelihood what you will face is arrest and seizure of your property until "legal ownership" can be established, even though no crime has been committed other than the prejudice demonstrated by the particular law enforcement officer question. I know, when talking to gun owners, what you will encounter is that they will say this can't happen. Let me tell you I have in my files dozens of incidents (from ALL over the state) where gun owners encountered this very kind of attitude and even worse treatment than mentioned in my simple explanation.
As Dirty Harry would say, “do you (we) feel lucky”?