AR-15 OWNERS – take note of immanent PSP regulations changes

[WhiteFeather]

I don’t have any more updated information at this time.

Have some more observations with pending the PSP changing the regulation – not that its legal for them to do it mind you, this is a direct violation of the UFA but who in going to hold the state police accountable when they break the laws, the answer is always the same take them the agency to court. Never is a politically connect individual in the agency held accountable for playing with our rights.

Here are some of the other potential problems

Will any one under 21 be able to buy an AR-15?

Will you need a LTCF permit to transport AR-15 OTHER than back and forth to the range etc same rules as a pistol (firearm) as defined as firearm in UFA?

If you get stopped by a police while you are in a possession of an AR-15 guess what? it more than likely won’t be in the PSP database (non database) as registered to you along with all of the problems that go along with having a firearm not in the illegal PSP database confiscated as is now done with handguns.

No more private sales of AR-15, they all have to be transferred through a FFL.

If you do any of this things will you be prosecuted, even if there is no law?

Kim was telling a story of a state trooper recently coming into a FFL dealer retail store and telling him that he has to transfer AR-15 receivers & completed firearm the same way as handguns, the FFL dealer said put it in writing to the PSP trooper. The PSP trooper tried exercising illegal authority, threaten the dealer, the guy said if you won’t put it in writing, threw the PSP out of his store. Now how many FFL dealer will do this? Certainly not the big national chain stores, they will just roll over and comply with the authorities. It’s cheaper and less hassle for them just to do as they are told to do, as most of us do every day to someone in “authority” over us, even if we can’t find a law that makes us do what we are told to do.

Since the PSP (under the governors direction) have arbitrary determined that AR-15 can be converted from to long guns to pistol configuration, (no legislative authority to do this) by just changing a stock (look at the encore / contender rifle – pistol case). What is going to be next of the politically incorrect firearms, Ak-47, SKS, ruger 10-22, uzi, m-1 carbines, mini-14, all kinds of shotguns and a whole lot list of other firearms could be converted the same way just by buy a different stock ….so expect them to include these as well IF we let them get away with this illegal power grab and violation of the law. So they could treat anything as a pistol transfers that can be easily converted by changing the stock or unbolting/ removing a folding stock option. You can see where this is going…..

The PSP has been using our tax money to maintain a illegal database of pistols owners since about 1901 the ACSL & others spent a lot of money taking the case up to the supreme court with that stupid ruling that since every firearm is not registered into database it’s not illegal because it’s not a complete database of all of firearms was a BS ruling that they took months to torture out that PC logic.

PICS cost about ½ million a year to just operate and maintain, its cost tax payer about 130 million since 1998

This is a political power grab by the governor using the PSP leadership to change the rules, its illegal of course, it’s a breaking the UFA laws, it’s a criminal act absolutely but it never stopped bureaucrats, political appointees before from violating the law, especially the PSP leadership. After all how often do you see anyone in authority in the government ever personally being held accountable for violating the laws, especially when it comes to citizen’s rights. There is answer is take them to courts, even if the court rules in your favor who pays, who actually goes to jail for breaking the law in cases like this. They have unlimited tax money to defend their position, the judges are paid by the same tax money, mix in the politics factors, people holding offices with no morals, combine in the fact that most people are too busy with their self important lives to care till it effects them personally.

So why should someone elected to office (the good guys) stick their neck out, if the average gun owner don’t care enough to get involved?
Really ? Why should they? Hence the reason we get more bad laws , and stuff like this happens etc

You see all the anti-gun “political appointee” police chief leadership in police association and military always go in uniform or speaking out for more gun control or standing behind them “as stage props” at gun control rallies for photo ops.

I know all kinds of police officers & military (good guys) are pro-gun and actaully support our rights how often do ever see them speak out?

Why not? I know why, so do you they will lose their jobs, get bad assignment or worse.

If they don't see millions of gun owners willing to speak out when they take our rights like attempts like this WHY SHOULD THEY risk all?

IF you won't even take the time to personally get involved to defend your rights.


Most of you have no idea the hundreds of hours the Kim Stolfer and Others freely give of their time as unpaid volunteers to work to correct legislation, deal with stuff like this, try to fight anti-gun legislation that does nothing to go after criminals to fight against this BS. We work with the good guys elected to office that want to do try right thing and uphold their Constitutional oaths.

This will probably be taken to court, but who is going to foot the bill? Its not free. The ACSL and Others has footed the bill to fight lots of these court battles even if you win you lose the cost of the legal battle in most cases.

IF this wasn’t a public forum, viewable anyone, I would fill you in on really bad a lots of the stuff that goes on behind the public scenes, with BS like this. If you ever get a chance to talk with Kim Stolfer he will tell you about how things really work, you won’t like the real examples of gun owners getting screwed over and rights violated lots more than what’s post on PAFOA.

I have access to lots of them, I can’t violate my promise to reveal what in them except in VERY general terms, sometimes nothing. After a while I don’t even want to read them, because their go I or you just for being in the wrong situation at the wrong time because of someone in “authority” get rule over you, even if its not legal. When it’s you that facing this juggernaught of this happening to you hopeful you can call someone like Kim Stolfer and have the cash to afford the defense of your rights.

Everyone rest assured that Kim Stolfer and Others will try to what they can to stop this from happening, unfortunately to few other gun owners will care about this till it personally effects them won’t care about it. Still even when it does, they will stop at just complaining to each other on forums like this , never taking direct action to lend their support of others efforts to stop stuff like this, where it counts the legislators that work for us, where their voice will make a differance.

Sorry for the rant, stuff like this is just very upsetting to me and I don't even own a AR-15, no plans on buying one, so why should I really care?

Still I do care, when other don't that actaul own firearm like this. Guess that makes me what? .... fill in the blank.... my wife usually does when others that should care don't, won't fight for supporting their rights when they could make a differance, won't even write a letter to a Rep that is their employee and lots of gun owners don't even bother to vote. Just look at how seldom this section of PAFOA is even viewed by most people, guess it more fun to complain that actually do something constructive. again sorry for the rant

[coat4gun]

<rant>
This is the mess that we get when we compromise with these gun control asshats. "shall not be infringed" and "shall not be questioned" is pretty clear to me... and all of this crap is an infringement. People are going to start going ballistic in this country soon if they don't back off... and they will wonder why it happened... people can only be pushed so far.

The list of government agencies that are purposely defying existing law is getting longer every week. Losing respect for governing agencies will be the result.

</rant>

Sorry, just had to get that out. This stuff just makes my head spin... thinking of how our supposed leaders have nothing better to do than make our lives harder.

[pyld]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

As for the Corbett's office, he's likely not saying anything because:

- The AG's office is part of the Executive, so they work FOR the governor
- There's talk he's planning a gubernatorial run, and he doesn't want to make any waves with voters on the other side of the issue.

The AG does not work for the Governor. The AG is elected independently and serves as such.

The 2nd reason might be the case.

[Kenshin]

Well i sent a email to the AG. So i guess well see whats going to go on there. BTW if he has the PSP send the letter out doesn't that put in writing that the PSP are guilty of forcing a FFL to violate the law? Seems pretty clear to me if they put it in writing without changing the law that they can be charged for it? Or some kind of other criminal action be taken against the PSP for it?

[BTA88]

Originally Posted by WhiteFeather

this is a direct violation of the UFA but who in going to hold the state police accountable when they break the laws

Not to sound like a firebrand or anything, but that's our job. If we (The People) don't keep them in check, nobody will.

[Yellowfin]

Time to sue them. Again. Gah, can't these bastages just leave gun owners alone???!?!?!?

[coat4gun]

Originally Posted by BTA88

Not to sound like a firebrand or anything, but that's our job. If we (The People) don't keep them in check, nobody will.

...and its their job to obey the Constitution and Laws that they swore to uphold. I am not disagreeing with you... I just think that when we put them in charge with certain guidelines to direct their conduct, they should stick to the program or be removed. We should expect more from them. I mean really... my children are more honorable and trustworthy than many of our current "leaders"

[Guns4Fun]

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

Does this mean all current privately-owned AR lowers are grandfathered and don't need to be in PICS... or do they now expect us to run down to an FFL and get official paperwork done on each one we own, lest the PSP or other LEO will then confiscate them in the future if/when they stop somebody at a range or search a home or some such thing?

/Shoot! And it wasn't like anyone was OC'ing them or anything.

The good news (if there is any) about this is that if you do buy a new AR rifle and they require the pistol form to be filled out anyhow - you should be able to open or conceal carry that new AR - they can't have it both ways .

Also, you can now drive around with your loaded AR in the car too if you have a LTCF.

If they want to classify it as a pistol - even though it isn't - we sure should be able to carry it like a pistol.

Me thinks this has more to do with registering our AR's in the non registry data base than anything else. They want to over step their authority to track us.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by pyld

The AG does not work for the Governor. The AG is elected independently and serves as such.

The 2nd reason might be the case.

From the AG's website:
http://www.attorneygeneral.gov/theoffice.aspx?id=168

The Commonwealth Attorneys Act establishes the Attorney General as the chief legal and law enforcement officer of the Commonwealth...

I stand corrected on the AG working for the Governor. However, although elected independently, as Chief LEO of PA the AG's office is part of the Executive Branch of government. As such, I believe my concern is still valid, as we're talking about one office potentially investigating another office within the same branch of government. Kinda like the fox watching the hen house.

[BTA88]

Originally Posted by coat4gun

...and its their job to obey the Constitution and Laws that they swore to uphold. I am not disagreeing with you... I just think that when we put them in charge with certain guidelines to direct their conduct, they should stick to the program or be removed. We should expect more from them. I mean really... my children are more honorable and trustworthy than many of our current "leaders"

You're not wrong in the least, but when the elected officials and public servants fail to uphold their duties, it becomes our responcibility to hold them accountable, and just hope that there are enough uncorrupted judges left to give us a fighting chance.