Oath takers-LEO's please note

[Water-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

The vast majority of LEOs and military personnel will blindly obey orders, fire upon and do otherwise unspeakable things to unarmed civilians, let alone armed civilians... and furthermore, they will sleep like babies the very same night.

Don't kid yourselves, would-be patriots of the next revolution... if/when the balloon goes up, allies will be few and far between.

+1 on that!

[Water-Man]

Originally Posted by unclejumbo

How do you "know" that? In my conversations with fellow law enforcement officers, it has become clear that many would absolutely not do that. The reasons are varied, some because they will not violate the Constitution, some because the pay isn't worth the risk in such a scenario.

Now if you're referring to the administration ordering such action, that is possible. If the rank and file wouldn't follow the order then it wouldn't happen.

Being an LEO means any of us can say "I quit" and walk out the door.

"Talk is cheap".

[Elmar]

Originally Posted by Pro2A

I'd say he's half right... yes there is that moonbat fringe that probably would. I think most local, rural and small town police departments wouldn't. In addition I think most of the military wouldn't.

The evidence of psychology and history disagrees with your belief sir.

[unclejumbo]

Originally Posted by Water-Man

"Talk is cheap".

Wow, that is really profound. Thanks so much for your valuable insight.

[Kenshin]

I wonder how the situation will change when those same members are following orders to disarm or detain their own families or friends.

[DiveGerry]

I would hope that our military, police, and National Guard individuals would have strength of character, courage, and a true belief is the Constitution that they are sworn to uphold. Perhaps only time will tell where each member will stand - if it ever gets to that point.

To be willing to die or be imprisoned for your beliefs takes a special individual. Until we are faced with that scenario, no person is truly sure how they will react.

Someone sent this to me - just wanted to share.

Have you ever wondered what happened to the 56 men
who signed the Declaration of Independence ?

Five signers were captured by the British as traitors,
and tortured before they died.

Twelve had their homes ransacked and burned.
Two lost their sons serving in the Revolutionary Army;
another had two sons captured.

Nine of the 56 fought and died from wounds or
hardships of the Revolutionary War.

They signed and they pledged their lives, their fortunes,
and their sacred honor.

What kind of men were they?

Twenty-four were lawyers and jurists.
Eleven were merchants,
nine were farmers and large plantation owners;
men of means, well educated,
but they signed the Declaration of Independence
knowing full well that the penalty would be death if
they were captured.

Carter Braxton of Virginia, a wealthy planter and
trader, saw his ships swept from the seas by the
British Navy. He sold his home and properties to
pay his debts, and died in rags.

Thomas McKeam was so hounded by the British
that he was forced to move his family almost constantly.
He served in the Congress without pay, and his family
was kept in hiding. His possessions were taken from him,
and poverty was his reward.

Vandals or soldiers looted the properties of Dillery, Hall, Clymer,
Walton, Gwinnett, Heyward, Ruttledge, and Middleton.

At the battle of Yorktown , Thomas Nelson, Jr., noted that
the British General Cornwallis had taken over the Nelson
home for his headquarters. He quietly urged General
George Washington to open fire. The home was destroyed,
and Nelson died bankrupt.

Francis Lewis had his home and properties destroyed.
The enemy jailed his wife, and she died within a few months.

John Hart was driven from his wife's bedside as she was dying.
Their 13 children fled for their lives. His fields and his gristmill
were laid to waste. For more than a year he lived in forests
and caves, returning home to find his wife dead and his
children vanished.
So, take a few minutes while enjoying your 4th of July holiday and
silently thank these patriots. It's not much to ask for the price they paid.

Remember: freedom is never free!

I hope you will show your support by sending this to as many
people as you can, please. It's time we get the word out that patriotism
is NOT a sin, and the Fourth of July has more to it than beer,
picnics, and baseball games.

[Adam-12]

Originally Posted by unclejumbo

Being an LEO means any of us can say "I quit" and walk out the door.

That's the first thing that goes out the window under martial law. Quitting under those circumstances is treason. And you'll only try that if you aren't suckered by the propaganda they'll pump into you first about a Constitutional crisis, the imminent fall of the republic, etc.

Like the invaders in Iraq, who aren't at war with "Islam" or "Iraqis" but only "terrorists," who are rare as hens' teeth and hard to find as needles in haystacks. Every "collateral" victim creates anger and blowback, which leads more and more Iraqis to be classified as "terrorists"--not just the literal handful of actual terrorists, but also the legitimately pissed-off victims acting basically in self-defense, and of course the unregistered politicians (what you might call warlords and crime-lords) exploiting the chaos. The end result is pervasive paranoia, because anyone might be an "enemy." They're nowhere. They're everywhere. The "friendlies" hate you. The "enemies" act like friends by day...

One scenario: suppose they declared a national emergency over the "twelve million illegal aliens destroying our country," and imposed martial law. They task you with finding illegals, which of course means checking everyone's ID--but only to catch illegals, mind you. For everyone else it's just an unfortunate, but unavoidable, inconvenience. Some illegals try running blockades.

Some "sympathizers" hide illegals, smuggle them through checkpoints, etc., which leads to orders to shoot at checkpoints, orders to invade homes, etc--but once again, only targetting "illegals" [i]and, of course, the pinko traitorous scum who harbor them.[/quote] This pisses off a certain share of bubbas who don't want to put up with warrantless searches for illegals, and some of them pop off at LEOs as well. LEOs return fire, purely in self-defense of course...

[larrymeyer]

I guess what I said before was missed. If your an LEO military are government IE FBI. What is your department doing in case of a national emergency ?? An example would be a dirty bomb, going off in a major city. Say New York at the top of the Empire State Building I can think of others if you'd like. Hundreds or thousands would be killed radiation would be spread for miles contamination thousands more. The president would be forced to declare martial law. All police would immediately be considered part of the military and have to follow a military officers orders.

Now the question is do you disarm civilians ?

Everyone else non LEOS

And how many civilians would be willing to turn in their guns voluntary ?

[larrymeyer]

Originally Posted by DiveGerry

I.

Posted Here
http://forum.pafoa.org/lounge-108/64...up-page-2.html

[Robert Kayland]

Originally Posted by unclejumbo

Honestly, I don't think most of us think about martial law. I've always considered that more of a military matter. I always assumed we would just get shoved to the side in such a scenario.

Your were probably typing when I edited and added my last sentence. The difference between the military and domestic law enforcement is the ability to just walk away. I believe that a lot of LEOs would exercise that option if things got too bad. Remember New Orleans. How many LEOs simply quit through job abandonment when the shit hit the fan?

They weren't quitting because they didn't want to follow orders against the spirit of the original Constitution... they were quitting because their erstwhile power structure lost control... and they didn't want to be the ones holding the bag, trying to restore order when outnumbered or otherwise without assurances of their own security.

That's the only way LEOs or any other soldiers will become neutral or, dare we hope, come over to the "other side"... when their power structure can no longer write the checks, as it were.