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  #11 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by Robert Kayland View Post
Scoring update:
National Guard 4 Kent State 0

Alot has changed in the National Guard since Kent State.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by ReconLdr View Post
Alot has changed in the National Guard since Kent State.

That could be true... but very little has changed in the mentality of authority for the past several thousand years.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by ReconLdr View Post
Alot has changed in the National Guard since Kent State.
IMO, it is all going to be up to the Bde, Bn and Company Cdrs. Leaders higher than that are too deep in the politics, and although there will be some that would disobey, the majority will comply with instructions from higher. And as for leaders and soldiers lower than the Company Cdr level, there will be some that dissent, but the COs will be able to maintain discipline and compel the soldiers to follow in the largest majority of cases, whether they are ordering troops to (insert scary evil govt action here) or not.

I think any soldier in the military right now should make use of that Open Door Policy and have a little sit-down, heart-to-heart, with their Company Commander and ask him about his disposition on issues like this. The company commanders will be the biggest influencing factor on how things actually play out.
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Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by larrymeyer View Post
It would only take one Court and One PVT Slovik in case you forget who he was.

While enroute to his assigned unit, Slovik and a friend, Private John Tankey, took cover during an artillery attack and became separated from their detachment. The next morning, they found a Canadian military police unit and remained with them for the next six weeks. Tankey wrote to their regiment to explain their absence before he and Slovik reported for duty on October 7, 1944. No charges against them were filed.

The following day, on October 8, Slovik informed his company commander, Captain Ralph Grotte, that he was "too scared" to serve in a rifle company and asked to be reassigned to a rear area unit. He told Grotte that he would run away if he were assigned to a rifle unit, and asked his captain if that would constitute desertion. Grotte confirmed that it would. He refused Slovik's request for reassignment and sent him to a rifle platoon.

The next day, October 9, Slovik approached an MP and gave him a note in which he stated his intention to "run away" if he were sent into combat. He was brought before Lieutenant Colonel Ross Henbest, who offered him the opportunity to tear up the note and face no further charges. Slovik refused and wrote another note, stating he understood what he was doing and the consequences of his act.

Slovik was taken into custody and confined to the division stockade. The divisional judge advocate, Lieutenant Colonel Henry Summer, again offered Slovik an opportunity to rejoin his unit and have the charges against him suspended. He also offered Slovik a transfer to another infantry regiment. Slovik declined these offers, saying, "I've made up my mind. I'll take my court martial."

The 28th Division was scheduled to begin an attack in the Hurtgen Forest. The coming attack was common knowledge in the unit, and casualty rates were expected to be very high, as the prolonged combat in the area had been unusually grueling. The Germans were determined to hold, and terrain and weather reduced the usual American advantages in armor and air support to almost nothing. A small minority of soldiers indicated they preferred to be imprisoned rather than remain in combat (less than .5%), and the rates for desertion and other crimes had begun to rise.

Slovik was charged with desertion to avoid hazardous duty and court martialed on November 11, 1944. The prosecutor, Captain John Green, presented witnesses to whom Slovik had stated his intention to "run away." The defense counsel, Captain Edward Woods, announced that Slovik had elected not to testify. The nine officers of the court found Slovik guilty and sentenced him to death. The sentence was reviewed and approved by the division commander, Major General Norman Cota.

On December 9, Slovik wrote a letter to the Supreme Allied commander, General Dwight D. Eisenhower, pleading for clemency. However, desertion had become a problem, and Eisenhower confirmed the execution order on December 23. The execution by firing squad was carried out at 10:04 a.m. on January 31, 1945, near the village of Sainte-Marie-aux-Mines. Slovik was 24 years old.

Slovik was buried in Plot E of Oise-Aisne American Cemetery and Memorial in Fère-en-Tardenois, alongside 96 other American soldiers executed for crimes such as murder and rape. Their black headstones bear numbers instead of names, so it is impossible to identify them individually without knowing the key. In 1987, 42 years after his execution, Slovik's remains were returned to Michigan and reburied in Woodmere Cemetery, Detroit, next to those of his wife Antoinette Slovik, who had died in 1979. Although Slovik's wife and others have petitioned seven U.S. presidents for his pardon, Slovik has not been pardoned.
What exactly is your point by that?
I know damn well sure that i will not take an order against the constitution of the USA! I hold that above all others!!!
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Last edited by ironcowboy; July 2nd, 2009 at 03:11 PM.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by ironcowboy View Post
What exactly is your point by that?
I know damn well sure that i will not take an order against the constitution of the USA! I hold that above all others!!!
I beleive his point is that a few executions of "desserters" by the military when it comes to being used against Posse Comitatus is all it will take to make most of the soldiers fall into line.
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Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

At first I wouldn’t think our Military would disarm the American people but now I’m not sure...I know the police would try, It seems to me that almost every politician that takes an oath to defend our Constitution once in office there the first people trying to rape it...

I saw an interview recently when a reporter asked a Marine General if they have the right to refuse an order that was giving to them, He stated that Marines follow orders, then he was asked what if Marines were given orders to disarm the American people. The General replied any Marine has the right to distinguish between what orders are indeed to be considered absurd to follow....I don’t know, if any orders came down the pike that stated, start disarming the American population any refusal of these orders would have to start at the top of the chain of command...

Who knows what our military would do, all I can say if things like that start to happen we’d better dig in and for God sakes keep you head down.....
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Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by ironcowboy View Post
What exactly is your point by that?
I know damn well sure that i will not take an order against the constitution of the USA! I hold that above all others!!!
I agree my oath means a lot to me. But what I mean is the common solider would follow any order given knowing he faced the same as Solivk. A firing squad for disobeying a direct order. Remember your training you must go through the chain of command. You can find out what happens just go over your COs head without permission.

But duck when the shit hits the fan

Last edited by larrymeyer; July 2nd, 2009 at 05:53 PM.
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Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by larrymeyer View Post
I agree my oath means a lot to me. But what I mean is the common solider would follow any order given knowing he faced the same as Solivk. A firing squad for disobeying a direct order. Remember your training you must go through the chain of command. You can find out what happens just go over your COs head without permission.

But duck when the shit hits the fan
Yep , sadly you are right .
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Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

Last I heard, none of the soldiers (and yes, I call Federal LEOs soldiers in the best sense of the word) had any qualms about killing the kids at Waco or shooting a mom holding her child at Ruby Ridge.

What makes anyone think government soldiers will react differently when the balloon goes up and those of us who refuse to give up our arms are labeled as domestic terrorists?
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Old July 2nd, 2009
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Default Re: Oath takers-LEO's please note

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Originally Posted by larrymeyer View Post
I agree my oath means a lot to me. But what I mean is the common solider would follow any order given knowing he faced the same as Solivk. A firing squad for disobeying a direct order. Remember your training you must go through the chain of command. You can find out what happens just go over your COs head without permission.

But duck when the shit hits the fan
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Originally Posted by 1861 View Post
Yep , sadly you are right .
Guys, you know full well that the common soldier following orders is paramount to the success of our military and law enforcement. Where my confidence lies is in those giving the orders.

Should the worst happen, I have to believe that those in charge will follow the path of least resistance. Specifically, if the SHTF and a large majority of Americans have decided to take action against tyranny, the easiest path to quell the uproar is to peacefully dismiss the 535 people who failed to uphold their oath from our governmental offices and return them to the private sector.

I can only speak for myself; there is no way I will give up liberty at any cost. The people in charge of our military and law enforcement must feel the same way. No?
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