Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    I announced this over on PA2A...

    I am going to go after the City to gut and destroy §10-821, which is the City of Philadelphia's inert assault weapons ban (not enforced because the City doesn't want to see it shot down in appeals).

    http://phillycode.org/10-821/

    If you're going after Philadelphia, may I suggest you use some other good material besides 10-821 since I'm focused on that one. I have seen Superior Court and Commonwealth Court shoot down appeals over "scattershooting", trying to bundle up too much sh*t in one claim. If several Plaintiffs are going after different sections of the Phila Code all at once it will keep the City's Law Department super-busy, plus it will place great pressure on City Council to write a clean-up bill and remove the offending language from the City Code.

    HB80 says that if the municipality removes the offending legislation after you have filed suit, then you win by default.


    We have 60 days after Corbett lifts his pen off that paper on his desk and I am banking on City Council to not go through its books and clear out all the obvious preempting shit in the Phila Code.

    My recommendation is that you find an attorney who will take this on contingency ONLY, and she or he bills at their desire. You would get zero because HB80 does not explicitly spell out punitive damages (so don't even attempt to reach for that in your prayer for relief).


    Just ask the court for injunctive or declarative relief and an order to have the text stricken from the local ordinance and the municipal body pay your lawyer's fee and the court costs.


    Hang the judge's order up on your wall in a frame.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    WTF, just read your posts on pa2a. This isn't about making money for your law firm...

  3. #3
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Quote Originally Posted by LBaker View Post
    WTF, just read your posts on pa2a. This isn't about making money for your law firm...
    I don't run a law firm.

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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Yeah, this post struck me as odd from the beginning. Hostile tone, overly authoritative, and just weird.

    Link to the posts on PA2A?
    Slaves don't own arms; free men do.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Someone can start another lawsuit to completely erase this part of the City Code...

    CHAPTER 10-2000. USE OF THREE-DIMENSIONAL PRINTER TO MANUFACTURE FIREARMS 275

    Bookmark§ 10-2001. Definitions.
    (1) Firearm. Any device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosive or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use.

    (2) Three-dimensional printer . A computer-driven machine capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model.
    Bookmark§ 10-2002. Restriction on Use.

    No person shall use a three-dimensional printer to create any firearm, or any piece or part thereof, unless such person possesses a license to manufacture firearms under Federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 923(a).
    Bookmark§ 10-2003.

    Penalties.
    A violation of this Chapter shall be a Class III offense and subject to a fine as set forth in § 1-109 of this Code.


    ----

    This one will probably be harder to beat, as it has not much to do with lawful possession which is where the preemption lies, but if you can find clauses in PUFA that would reach this section you could go for it. Otherwise all you can do really is print 3D parts outside of the city and drive them in.
    Last edited by ArcticSplash; October 21st, 2014 at 10:58 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Quote Originally Posted by DreadPirateMoyer View Post
    Yeah, this post struck me as odd from the beginning. Hostile tone, overly authoritative, and just weird.

    Link to the posts on PA2A?
    http://www.pa2a.org/thread-hb80-pass...ring-a-lawsuit

  7. #7
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    Someone can start another lawsuit to completely erase this part of the City Code...

    CHAPTER 10-2000. USE OF THREE-DIMENSIONAL PRINTER TO MANUFACTURE FIREARMS 275

    Bookmark§ 10-2001. Definitions.
    (1) Firearm. Any device designed, made or adapted to expel a projectile through a barrel by using the energy generated by an explosive or burning substance or any device readily convertible to that use.

    (2) Three-dimensional printer . A computer-driven machine capable of producing a three-dimensional object from a digital model.
    Bookmark§ 10-2002. Restriction on Use.

    No person shall use a three-dimensional printer to create any firearm, or any piece or part thereof, unless such person possesses a license to manufacture firearms under Federal law, 18 U.S.C. § 923(a).
    Bookmark§ 10-2003.

    Penalties.
    A violation of this Chapter shall be a Class III offense and subject to a fine as set forth in § 1-109 of this Code.
    So you think the people that fought this so hard really wanted to prove the anti argument correct?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Quote Originally Posted by LBaker View Post
    So you think the people that fought this so hard really wanted to prove the anti argument correct?
    Are you a communist libtard? You sound like one.

    WHO do you expect to bring causes of action under the changes in HB80? Oh let me guess---everyone thought that this bill would magically make the local preemptive ordinances magically vanish.


    The changes that passed and the governor is to sign do not remove this crap from your local codes. Some of the shitboros that don't have a pot to piss in and maybe some of the other smarter townships who want to avoid lawsuits will go and clear their books of all the preemptive local legislation they've passed on their own.

    I am betting the bigger offenders, like Philly, won't. So, I have lawyers at my disposal, and I will file suit. You should spend some time reading §10-821(a) and (b)... it actually includes gun confiscation in it. You think that shit should be allowed to sit around on the books?

    If PUFA was ever repealed, God forbid, then these shit ordinances would have full effect and in Philly everyone who owns anything that takes a mag over 10 rounds has to turn their firearms over to the Philly Police within 30 days.

    Dumb. Real, dumb.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcticSplash View Post
    I announced this over on PA2A...

    I am going to go after the City to gut and destroy §10-821, which is the City of Philadelphia's inert assault weapons ban (not enforced because the City doesn't want to see it shot down in appeals).

    http://phillycode.org/10-821/

    If you're going after Philadelphia, may I suggest you use some other good material besides 10-821 since I'm focused on that one. I have seen Superior Court and Commonwealth Court shoot down appeals over "scattershooting", trying to bundle up too much sh*t in one claim. If several Plaintiffs are going after different sections of the Phila Code all at once it will keep the City's Law Department super-busy, plus it will place great pressure on City Council to write a clean-up bill and remove the offending language from the City Code.

    HB80 says that if the municipality removes the offending legislation after you have filed suit, then you win by default.


    We have 60 days after Corbett lifts his pen off that paper on his desk and I am banking on City Council to not go through its books and clear out all the obvious preempting shit in the Phila Code.

    My recommendation is that you find an attorney who will take this on contingency ONLY, and she or he bills at their desire. You would get zero because HB80 does not explicitly spell out punitive damages (so don't even attempt to reach for that in your prayer for relief).


    Just ask the court for injunctive or declarative relief and an order to have the text stricken from the local ordinance and the municipal body pay your lawyer's fee and the court costs.


    Hang the judge's order up on your wall in a frame.
    That's just what we need, some ambulance chasing lawyer fucking this thing up right off the bat. You better cool your jets dude and rethink this thing. It's not a slam dunk...

  10. #10
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    Default Re: HB80 Lawsuits - Let's Try Not To Overstep Each Other

    Quote Originally Posted by LBaker View Post
    That's just what we need, some ambulance chasing lawyer fucking this thing up right off the bat. You better cool your jets dude and rethink this thing. It's not a slam dunk...
    Of course it's not a slam dunk. I have someone who's willing to do contingency and he owns multiple "offending" firearms like I do.

    The City's going to argue the clock (all the bad shit was put into the Code prior to HB80), they'll try to file motions for failure to state a claim and all sorts of other cat scratching to make the suit go away to save face and throw up delays. Or, if the Nutter administration doesn't really care (he's only got a few months left), the City might elect to just withdraw the legislation and it goes to default judgment.

    City Council has to physically run a bill through two readings to remove the offending legislation so the only thing I'm seeking is injunctive relief ordering the City to carry it out. Far be it for a City Solicitor to defy a judge's order and to have to get the PA Supremes involved (hopefully with 1 less jurist watching porn).
    Last edited by ArcticSplash; October 21st, 2014 at 11:29 PM.

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