Municipalities in violation of §6120 (Preemption)

[VariableFeedback]

Originally Posted by ccphilly1984

the land is owned by the township, it is "public" land, but it is "public invite" to the township owned land... it's kind of iffy... just like they have pubic smoking bans in buildings... the bars are owned, but they are by public invite.

If you will allow the townships to ignore preemption for parks, can you explain what the difference is between the parks and the roads? Or should the township be able to ignore preemption for somebody driving down the street or walking down the sidewalk?

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by ccphilly1984

the land is owned by the township, it is "public" land, but it is "public invite" to the township owned land... it's kind of iffy... just like they have pubic smoking bans in buildings... the bars are owned, but they are by public invite.

there is a problem with these arguments.

namely, the PA UFA preemption statute specifically states that no municipality or county may *in any manner* regulate the possession of firearms.

the township/county/etc. does not have the same power to regulate firearms on it's "public invite" land as a regular private property owner because the preemption clause specifically addresses municipalities and counties and not any other land owners.

the fact that the land is owned by the township and is "public invite" is irrelevant. the preemption statute does not contain any language that limits it to only streets, sidewalks, etc. or any other specific type of public or private land.

it also does not limit itself to covering just ordinances. it says "regulate" and it says "in any manner".

a park regulation is, by defintion, regulation...and, thus, covered by the "regulate" phraseology. further, the "in any manner" clause also clearly means it is not limited to just preventing ordinances regardng carrying in general. regulating the possession of firearms in parks is "regulating" and falls under "in any manner".

also, regarding local smoking bans...i know of at least two (erie and allegheny county) that were shot down by the courts because there is a preemption clause in the state clean air act (and that preemption clause is more vague and weaker than the one in the PA UFA to boot).

are there any local smoking bans in force in PA?

[ccphilly1984]

Originally Posted by VariableFeedback

If you will allow the townships to ignore preemption for parks, can you explain what the difference is between the parks and the roads? Or should the township be able to ignore preemption for somebody driving down the street or walking down the sidewalk?

streets are different rules and regulations from parks because streets are means of transportation from one property (block of land) to another block of land. public parks are land owned by a township. it's local govenrnment property and they can restrict things on their own land... yes it is designated for public use, but it has hours restrictions when the public is not invited in, firearm or not. I wouldn't like the government telling me what to do with my land, so they can have the parks if they really want to. they restrict smoking in certain areas of their parks even though has a pa preemption for them laws too... it's about property rights. you can not be arrested or prosecuted for carrying a firearm in a park, but the park ranger does have a right to kick you out or ask you to leave your firearm in your vehicle. if it were public use all the time, then there would be no park hours, just as there are no street hours (times when you can and can not use a street). Do you think we should be able to go into county parks whenever we desire? it's the same deal as smoking... If i decided to ignorantly light up a cigarette in a courthouse, I would be asked to leave, but can not be arrested for it... I might get a fine for being a public nuisance, but no criminal arrest.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by ccphilly1984

Do you think we should be able to go into county parks whenever we desire?

there is no state preemption clause with regard to park hours.

if there were, counties/townships could not set their own park hours either.

but there is not.

however, there is a (very strong and crystal clear) state preemption clause regarding the regulating of possession (not just transportation) of firearms.

[ccphilly1984]

Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota

there is no state preemption clause with regard to park hours.

if there were, counties/townships could not set their own park hours either.

but there is not.

however, there is a (very strong and crystal clear) state preemption clause regarding the regulating of possession (not just transportation) of firearms.

there is one (a preeemption) for smoking, but governments restrict smoking in their buildings and can do it in their parks too. If you want to carry in your park, then take it to the pa supreme court... I don't even bother to carry unless i'm going to "the hood"

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by ccphilly1984

they restrict smoking in certain areas of their parks even though has a pa preemption for them laws too...

my guess is that those restrictions actually come from the state clean air act.

if they don't and the county/township has passed its own regulations regarding smoking, someone might win in court if they sued to make them stop enforcing those bans.

the preemption clause in the clean air act is not nearly as clear cut as the PA UFA preemption clause, though.

it's about property rights.

in this case, the preemption clause specific limits what this particular property owner (municipality or county) can do in regards to regulating the possession of firearms.

namely, they may not *in any manner* regulate the possession of firearms.

[LittleRedToyota]

Originally Posted by ccphilly1984

there is one (a preeemption) for smoking, but governments restrict smoking in their buildings and can do it in their parks too.

the *state* regulates smoking in buildings...and on other public property.

If you want to carry in your park, then take it to the pa supreme court... I don't even bother to carry unless i'm going to "the hood"

if i ever actually get arrested for carrying in a park...or even just kicked out of the park...you can bet it will be going to court.

of course, that isn't likely to happen as i CC and allegheny county doesn't have a no guns in our parks rule anyway (at least not if you have an LTCF).

[Pa. Patriot]

Originally Posted by ccphilly1984

there is one (a preeemption) for smoking, but governments restrict smoking in their buildings and can do it in their parks too. If you want to carry in your park, then take it to the pa supreme court... I don't even bother to carry unless i'm going to "the hood"

No need to go to the SC since possession is clearly, and fully, preempted in SS6120.
There are no exceptions. None.

§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and
ammunition.
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may
in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession,
transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition
components when carried or transported for purposes

[ChamberedRound]

Amity Township
Ordinance 226, "Skateboard Park", a restatement of the township's park rules and regulations
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced. Pre-UFA ordinance which was never repealed.
Enacted on: 09/05/2006

Relevant text from the ordinance follows. Emphasis added by me:

Section 1, Part 1, Section 121: Projectiles

The possession or use of firearms, paintball equipment, slingshots, pellet guns, projectiles of any nature or any instrument which fires or discharges any projectile is hereby prohibited.

Amity Township
Ordinance 228, "Monocacy Hill Firearms"
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced.
Enacted on: 10/03/2006

Relevant text from the ordinance follows. Emphasis added by me:

Section 1: Section 122, entitled "Hunting", of Part 1, entitled "Parks and Recreation Areas", of Chapter XX, entitled "Parks and Recreation Areas", of the "Township of Amity Code of Ordinances", is hereby amended and restated in its entirety as follows:

Section 122, Hunting: Hunting on park grounds is allowed only on Monocacy Hill, and only in compliance with the regulations and stipulations as set forth in the statutes commonly known as the Game Laws of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Part 3, entitled "Discharge of Firearms" of Chapter XIV, entitled "Health and Safety", of the Township of Amity Code of Ordinances (commonly known as the Township's Gun Ordinance), and only a lawful distance from area picnic grounds, publicly occupied parks, and houses. Additionally, the following regulations shall apply:

(a) All firearms are prohibited on Monocacy Hill with the exception of the following:
(1) Shotguns, black powder muzzle loaders, bows and arrows and long, recurve and compound bows.

...

Amity Township
Ordinance 233, "Noise Ordinance", a definition of noise regulations and a restatement of conduct.
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced.
Enacted on: 02/20/2006

Relevant text from the ordinance follows. Emphasis added by me:

Section 1, Part 1, Section 111: Concealed Deadly Weapons

No person shall carry any concealed deadly weapon except persons duly authorized by State law.

[coat4gun]

Millersville Borough (Lancaster county)
Status: Currently in place. No known incidents where it was enforced.
Enacted: 11/27/2001

http://www.millersvilleborough.org/m...Ordinances.pdf

§103. PROHIBITED CONDUCT.
No person in attendance at park shall:

S. Hunt for, capture or kill, or attempt to capture or kill, or aid or assist in the capturing or killing of, in any manner, any wild bird or wild animal of any description, either game or otherwise, and to that end, it is unlawful for any person to carry onto or possess in any park, a hunting knife or a shotgun or rifle or pistol or firearm of any make or kind.