Help fight REAL ID

[josh]

A few PA legislators are finally waking up. T The time to fight Real ID is now. there are a couple bills already introduced to do just that. New HAmpshire and some other states have already refused to cooperate with real ID and now the PA general assembly seems to be getting a clue. But without the public outcry nothing will happen.
The following is from an email I received. Please take appropriate action. No one can defend your Liberty for you. You must take personal responsibility.

Speaking of REAL, there is a bill currently in the PA senate Communication and Technology Committee, SB 1220 sponsored by Sen. Folmer, that would reject the federally-mandated REAL ID Act of 2005. The REAL ID act would turn a drivers license into a national ID card, with information being controlled by the federal government. Links to Sen Folmer's press release on this bill and to Rep Rohrer's weaker HB 1351 are below:

http://www.samrohrer.com/?sectionid=...=17&itemid=217
www.senatorfolmer.com/press-2007/1107/111407.htm

[josh]

Here is the latest update I received from the chair of the LP in PA.

Date: Jan 14, 2008 11:05 PM
Subject: FW: Real ID UPdate -- Pennsylvania

I’m here at the state capitol with the National Veterans Committee on Constitutional Affairs (NVCCA), seeing what we can do to push for a hearing on either the Senate bill (S.B. 1220) or House bill (H.B. 1351) to reject Real ID for the state of P.A. Fully 10 private citizens showed up today to help, and it was fast-paced all day long on this first day back to work for the Assembly after their holiday break.

The Senate Bill is being held by the Communications and Technology Committee, which is headed up by Senator Robert Wonderling. As of yet, Wonderling is not co-sponsoring the bill, however six out of eleven of his committee members are (Senators Constance Williams, Edwin Erickson, Bob Regola, Vincent Fumo, Leanna Washington, and John Wozniak – who just came on today!)

NOTE: This means we HAVE THE VOTES TO PASS THIS BILL OUT OF COMMITTEE, AS SOON AS WE CAN GET A HEARING!

Also co-sponsoring the bill are Senators Mike Folmer, Shirley Kitchen, Robert Robbins, Robert Mellow, Jim Ferlo, Jane Orie, Lisa Boscola, Gerald Lavalle, Vincent Hughes, and Jane Earll.

Senators on the Communications and Technology Committee not yet supporting the bill include:
Senators Robert Wonderling (717) 787-5400 (Chairman)
John Gordner (717) 787-8928
Joseph Scarnati (717) 787-7084
Lisa Baker (717) 787-7428
and John Eichelberger. (717) 787-5490

If any of these Senators are representing your district, please call them and encourage them to sign on as co-sponsors, or if your representing Senator is already signed on, call them and ask for a press release. (This helps get the word out into newspapers/media where we can’t break through.) A total of 16 Senators are sponsoring this bill. (32% of the full Senate!)

The House Bill is being held by the Intergovernmental Affairs Committee, which is headed up by Representative Thomas Curtis. Representatives co-sponsoring this bill include:
Rep. Sam Rohrer, Babette Josephs, Robert Belfanti, Thomas Caltatgirone, Mike Carroll, Mark Cohen, Tom Creighton, Bryan Cutler, Gordon Denlinger, William DeWeese, Jaret Gibbons, Mauree Gingrich, Kate Harper, John Hornaman, Harold James, Rob Kaffman, Bill Kortz, Nick Kotik, Daylin Leach, Kathy Manderino, Carl Mantz, Duane Milne, Phillis Mundy, Jerry Nailor, Steven Nickol, Joseph Petrarca, Kathy Rapp, Douglas Reichley, Brad Roae, Chris Ross, John Siptroth, David Steil, Dan Surra, Rose Marie Swanger, Don Walko, Florindo Fabrizio, John Pallone, Jim Cox, Bob Mensch, Curtis Thomas, Lisa Benninghoff, Neal Goodman, Paul Clymer, Tim Mahoney, Edward Wonjnaroski, Camille George, Mark Keller Scott Hutchinson, Bob Bastian, Ronald Buxton, John Myers, Lawrence Curry, Julie Harhart, Thomas Petrone, Todd Rock, Michael O’Brien, Gene DiGirolamo, Mark Longietti, Richard Stevenson, Brian Ellis, Merle Phillips, Karen Beyer, Thomas Yewcic, Mike Fleck, Russ Fairchild, Mario Scavello, and Richard Grucela.

There are a total of 67 co-sponsors in the House. (33% of the house!)

NEW STRATEGY!
Currently we are speaking with members of the Appropriations Committee to get co-sponsors, BUT ALSO TO CUT OFF FUNDING for Real ID. Members of the Appropriations Committee who are not co-sponsoring include:

Representatives Dwight Evans (717) 787-1540
William Keller (717) 787-5774
Josh Shapiro (717) 783-7619
Kathy Manderino (717) 787-1254
Michael McGeehan (717) 772-4029
Greg Vitali (717) 787-7647
Mario Civera (717) 787-3850
Craig Dally (717) 783-8573
Stephen Barrar (717) 783-3038
Steven Cappelli (717) 787-6815
Fred McIlhattan (717) 772-2174
Katie True (717) 705-7161
Scott Conklin (717) 787-9473
Dan Frankel (717) 705-1875
John Galloway (717) 787-1292
Thaddeus Kirkland (717) 787-5881
Bryan Lentz (717) 787-8574
Tim Mahoney (717) 772-2174
John Myers (717) 787-3181
Cherelle Parker (717) 783-2178
Sean Ramaley (717) 787-4444
Dante Santoni (717) 783-3290
John Siptroth (717) 787-6492
Matthew Smith (717) 783-1850
Don Walko (717) 787-5470
Gordon Denlinger (717) 787-3531
Brian Ellis (717) 787-7686
David Millard (717) 783-1102
Ron Miller (717) 783-8389
Scott Petri (717) 787-9033
Dave Reed (717) 705-7173
Douglas Reichley (717) 787-1000

Call them and ask them to co-sponsor HB 1351, and ESPECIALLY to review CAREFULLY the upcoming budget proposal and REPEAL ANY FUNDING TO PENNDOT that moves forward ANY funding for Real ID compliance!!!

From Harrisburg,

[ChamberedRound]

While I agree we need PA to pass a law which declares that the PA govt. will not fund RealID in any way, what is being done at the federal level to repeal or get rid of RealID?

My concern centers around some recent articles which claim that while states can choose to opt-out, any ID cards from those states will not be accepted for airline travel. In those cases one must provide "other documents that are satisfactory", but DHS is not saying what those documents are. Passport? Birth Certificate? Anything?

I also love how smug Chertoff is in saying that we should just all shut up and lay down to our government masters. IMHO, when a basic civil liberty is at risk, the discussion should never end!

See here:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...r-society.html

[josh]

Originally Posted by ChamberedRound

While I agree we need PA to pass a law which declares that the PA govt. will not fund RealID in any way, what is being done at the federal level to repeal or get rid of RealID?

Other than millions of people trying to elect Ron Paul,there is nothing I am aware fo that is being done at the federal level. May want to check what the JPFO has going on.

My concern centers around some recent articles which claim that while states can choose to opt-out, any ID cards from those states will not be accepted for airline travel. In those cases one must provide "other documents that are satisfactory", but DHS is not saying what those documents are. Passport? Birth Certificate? Anything?

Well if this happens maybe it will make the sleeping masses realize the feds have no business meddling in the airline industry.

I also love how smug Chertoff is in saying that we should just all shut up and lay down to our government masters.

Chertoff needs a long drop and a sudden stop

IMHO, when a basic civil liberty is at risk, the discussion should never end!

I actually cant agree.
It seems to me many things have been discussed ceaselessly with no changes being made. Sometimes the discussion has to stop and resistance has to start.

[PAhunter]

REAL ID? How about this : "The U.S. Electronic Passport (e-passport) is the same as a regular passport with the addition of a small contactless integrated circuit (computer chip) embedded in the back cover. The chip securely stores the same data visually displayed on the photo page of the passport, and additionally includes a digital photograph. The inclusion of the digital photograph enables biometric comparison, through the use of facial recognition technology, at international borders. The U.S. e-passport also has a new look, incorporating additional anti-fraud and security features.

Since August 2007, the U.S. has been issuing only e-passports."

from url: http://travel.state.gov/passport/eppt/eppt_2498.html

Consider this as a step toward REAL ID. I know not all U S citizens possess a passport, but, recent attempts at controlling the boarders are making it more a possibility. The Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative could soon put a passport in almost everyones hand.

See: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html


Jack

[Garpman]

Aside from contacting our reps and senators, what is the timeframe of this REAL ID?

When will there be a meeting or voting or whatever on it? On the federal level, when is the timeline that we are all supposed to "comply"?

Last thing I read says that it was pushed back to 2013 for "clarification" and improvements or some such. People who are under 50 have to get it by 2013?

Please, if anyone knows any concrete info, post it. This is SERIOUSLY more (well equally really) important and infringing than any gun legislation right now.

I am really shocked that so few states opposed this.

[josh]

Originally Posted by Garpman

Aside from contacting our reps and senators, what is the timeframe of this REAL ID?

When will there be a meeting or voting or whatever on it? On the federal level, when is the timeline that we are all supposed to "comply"?



Last thing I read says that it was pushed back to 2013 for "clarification" and improvements or some such. People who are under 50 have to get it by 2013?

That was the last thing I heard. It was pushed back because there is growing resistance and if they push ti back people will forget about until it is to late.

I am really shocked that so few states opposed this.

I guess that shows how many state governments are as corrupt and power mad as the feds.

Either that or they are afraid of the big bad terrorists and want the feds to save them.

[awkx]

Originally Posted by ThunderingWind

I do not have an overall bad feeling towards Real ID. I think it can be a useful tool to help keep .. those that wish to over throw our government at bay.

People like Patrick Henry, Thomas Jefferson, and James Madison? Remember, our country's founding fathers overthrew their gov't when it tried to become the master of its people rather than their servant. As the Pennsylvania Constitution recognizes, the people have the right to overthrow an oppressive gov't:

All power is inherent in the people, and all free governments are founded on their authority and instituted for their peace, safety and happiness. For the advancement of these ends they have at all times an inalienable and indefeasible right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such manner as they may think proper.

Now, just be to clear, I don't think our gov't needs overthrowing. But the 'REAL ID' act is just one further step towards a police state.

I, for one, would prefer having my passport stamped every time I visit Alabama and Kentucky. Everyone should have to prove they are allowed out. Same goes for Mexico and Canada.

Do you mean "allowed in"? Not allowing people to leave a country is one of the surest signs of a totalitarian regime.

ETA: Also, needing to show a passport to cross a state border by land is simply not going to happen (it'll negatively affect business too much), so I don't think much would be gained by needing to show your papers when traveling by air.

[ChamberedRound]

Originally Posted by ThunderingWind

Do you have a link to this speech or taped interview? I would like to see it.

The link to the article I reference is in my post above. The particular quote is:

"There comes a point in time where all the discussion and analysis has to stop. We are now six years away from 9/11. Simply kicking this problem further down the road is a time-tested Washington way of smothering a proposal with process," said Chertoff. "The time has come to bite the bullet."

For reference, I'll repost the link, and a copy of the article below:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post...r-society.html

Secretary Michael Chertoff, head of the Department of Homeland Security, announced a set of final revisions to the controversial Real ID Act in a press conference this morning. It's not clear at this point how extensive those revisions truly are, but it is clear that DHS feels that the rules are now in their final form and that the period for discussion, revision, and dispute is now over.

"There comes a point in time where all the discussion and analysis has to stop. We are now six years away from 9/11. Simply kicking this problem further down the road is a time-tested Washington way of smothering a proposal with process," said Chertoff. "The time has come to bite the bullet." Or, as Jack Bauer might say (while in the midst of breaking half a dozen laws in the name of stopping an impending attack), "We're running out of time!"

Chertoff summarized the major features of the final rules as follows:

* People must provide documentation that proves who they are and that they're here in this country legally
* The DMV must verify that the documents they're being presented with are legit, and take steps to protect their own databases from misuse.
* Licenses must meet tamper-proof standards
* States have to work together to assure that individuals aren't able to obtain driver's from multiple states in an improper manner

Again, there's nothing really new here in big-picture terms, but a closer examination of the rules when they're published in the Federal Register may turn up some major concessions on the government's part.

Chertoff emphasized that DHS revised the rules in close consultation with the states in order to address concerns about implementation costs. "Contrary to what some people say, this is not just the federal government big-footing itself onto the states. We had a great deal of consultation [with the states]. So, this is very much the product of a lot of listening, and a lot of careful consideration."

Chertoff claims that as a result of some revisions to the rules, like allowing the states more flexibility in meeting Real ID's citizen identification and database access requirements, the cost to states has been cut by three quarters. He noted that the average cost for a Real ID-compliant license is now $8 per license.
It may not be a "national ID card," but it's still a matter of national security

While Chertoff was a pains to emphasize DHS's willingness to accommodate concerns from the states in formulating the final rules, he was equally insistent that DHS had given no quarter to the whining of civil libertarians and privacy advocates.

Chertoff first addressed privacy advocates by declaring, "We are not going to have a national database." Rather, Real ID will link databases together with a unified query service, in a manner that enables them to function as a de facto national database. (See the difference?)

"This is a great teaching moment on the challenges of really reconfiguring our society so that we can take reasonable steps to secure ourselves in a way that is nevertheless consistent with our civil liberties and our prosperity," Chertoff said in the Q&A session following the announcement.

Chertoff also hauled out a very large civil liberties strawman—that privacy advocates are "against all identification" and (by implication) don't care if "Mohammed Atta number two" gets on an airplane—and proceeded to absolutely beat it like a piñata throughout the course of the announcement and subsequent Q&A session.

The secretary repeatedly characterized opponents of Real ID as being in favor of weak forms of ID on the premise that more secure forms of ID will lead to a false sense of security.

(This is only half true. Opponents of Real ID are opposed to a reliance on positive identification as front-line security measure. As Bruce Schneier has argued, positive identification is not a good proxy for "intent to do harm," since very few suicide bombing recruits have a history of terrorism the way that criminals have a history of crime. Andrew McCarthy, a former federal anti-terror prosecutor and a figure who's firmly in the "democracy and national security are incompatible in an age of nuclear terrorism" camp, made much the same point about the difficulty of identifying terrorists in a speech that I reported on last year.)

At any rate, it's not at all clear to me how to square Chertoff's characterization of Real ID as an urgent matter of national security with DHS's past insistence that Real ID is not an attempt to make the driver's license a de facto national ID card, but perhaps a reader could enlighten me on this point.
Stopping illegals and ID thieves

Chertoff also took a hardline stance against illegal immigration and identity theft, citing both of these issues as almost on par with national security concerns in the implementation of the new rules.

The announcement's emphasis on ID theft and illegal immigration was prefigured in Chertoff's speech during an advisory council meeting yesterday, where the secretary stated that "false identification facilitates illegal immigration, which I'm hearing again and again as a very big concern for the American people. False identification facilitates identity theft."

Chertoff suggested in the Q&A that employers would flock to adopt Real ID as a method for screening potential employees to ensure that they are US residents. There are no laws currently on the books that force employers to use Real ID, but Chertoff made the case that a desire to be in compliance with existing employment law would create a "demand" for positive ID that Real ID would then meet for employers.

The secretary also repeatedly emphasized the importance of a reliable driver's license as an identity theft prevention measure. You might think that the federal government's repeated accidental exposures of citizens' data through security lapses would pose a larger threat to the security of our identities than fake IDs, but DHS's press release claims that fake driver's licenses were used in 35 percent of the ID theft cases that the Secret Service investigated between 2000 and 2006.
If your state doesn't comply, it'll be no fun to fly

Because the Real ID rules are all opt-in, states can still refuse to comply with the requirements. However, if your license is issued by a non-compliant state, then you can expect to have a hard time getting on an airplane.

"If a state were to opt out of this, then their license would no longer as a matter of law be accepted as as proper identification for getting on an airplane," said Chertoff. He later explained that people from states that opt out can still get on airplanes and into federal buildings by "bringing other documents that are satisfactory." Either that, or they'll have to go into secondary screening, which means a sit-down interview with an agent.

[Emptymag]

Hmmm... I'm just thinking that the microchips we put in dogs make for a pretty good test bed for future implementation in humans.

My dog has a chip.
If he gets lost, a vet or shelter can scan him and get him back to where he belongs. At the time we had it done, you could get a lifetime dog license that was tied to it somehow. Now we don't have to send in paperwork for a new tag each year.

Sound familiar? "It's for your own safety and it's convenient."

Sorry. I know we weren't talking about chipping humans, but the Real ID isn't that much different.