More Reciprocity

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

As I understand it, the MarcS has quite a bit of official training with many qualified and internationally recognized instructors, and would like to understand which one of the courses FLA did not find to be acceptable in order to qualify for a FLA LTCF?

Are you serious?

[marinakorp]

Originally Posted by dgg9

Originally Posted by marinakorp
As I understand it, the MarcS has quite a bit of official training with many qualified and internationally recognized instructors, and would like to understand which one of the courses FLA did not find to be acceptable in order to qualify for a FLA LTCF?

Are you serious?

Yes,

Originally Posted by MarcS
Anyone know of a utah class in SEPA? Apparently none of my training is good enough for florida and the utah thing seems to be a convenient package.

[KeithPA]

790.06 License to carry concealed weapon or firearm.

(h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:

1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or

7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;

Florida State Statutes 790.06

Like I said they accept almost anything. MarcS should be fine.

[theshadow]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

I suppose I don't understand the "official" courses piece of it.

As I understand it, the MarcS has quite a bit of official training with many qualified and internationally recognized instructors, and would like to understand which one of the courses FLA did not find to be acceptable in order to qualify for a FLA LTCF?

Is it that these courses are more Tactical/Defensive type of courses vs safety courses offered by a nationally recognized organization (Hunter Safety, NRA, Miltary Background, etc). Is it that the certificates don't carry a signature of an instructor... what about these courses are not considered to be sufficient. I'm sure that there are a few out there that do not have the specific background, but do have several tactical scool training ,etc.

See that's just the point that other posters have made, which training was NOT accepted, since Florida has a lot of accepted. Some of the rest of us were pointing out what is acceptable. I could open "Pete's Pistol Plaza" and offer a safety course, but just because I sign the certificate does not mean it reaches a level of standard to make it acceptable. Even if I teach to NRA standards but am not NRA certified in many cases will cause my class to not be accepted. As such if I take a $1200 tactical pistoleer and self-defense course, and it doesn't meet the minimum standards, I can always go and take the $12 hunter safety course to meet the requirements.

So see, there are two parts going on, 1) the open question what training was rejected and didn't meet the requirements. 2) here are some alternatives, many of which are low cost, free, or you may already have, that you can include, or take to meet the requirements.

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

Yes,

So, for the record, you can't fathom why a couple of bureaucrats from FLA, who probably know nothing about guns, are unable and unwilling to figure out training equivalencies for the thousands of monthly CCW applicants, and instead, simply set up a simple list that they can manage?

And you're also mystified why a state office where a small handful of people process thousands of forms from strangers in other states might have a different policy than a range taking a few local applicants at a time?

[marinakorp]

Originally Posted by dgg9

So, for the record, you can't fathom why a couple of bureaucrats from FLA, who probably know nothing about guns, are unable and unwilling to figure out training equivalencies for the thousands of monthly CCW applicants, and instead, simply set up a simple list that they can manage?

And you're also mystified why a state office where a small handful of people process thousands of forms from strangers in other states might have a different policy than a range taking a few local applicants at a time?

No, I find it odd that someone with the depth of training experience does not meet any one of the above requirements. Not one of the courses was taught by a certified instructor in any of the one certifying boards?

No course taken had an State Certified or NRA instructor present... see #7...seems to be WIDE open here for just about anything to qualify.

What training did they specifically deny as not meeting the criteria? That is what I want to know...

There are others... like presents evidence of participation in a Organized shooting competition... I suppose an IDPA membership might qualify? Not sure... but it is an organized shooting event

Even if someone were to go to a "PETES PISTOL PLAZA" as long as they were certified by the state (not the NRA) as an instructor.. this would qualify. I assume that you need to get a certification from some board in order to teach... yes? As long as it is a licensed facility for teaching... it should qualify under the FLA guidelines... I suppose.

Again... which of the training courses this member attended din not meet these super stringent regulations?

[dgg9]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

No, I find it odd that someone with the depth of training experience does not meet any one of the above requirements. Not one of the courses was taught by a certified instructor in any of the one certifying boards?

Advanced training presupposes basic safety training. This is the same reason a college degree requires, but does not also bestow, a GED.

[MarcS]

Originally Posted by marinakorp

No, I find it odd that someone with the depth of training experience does not meet any one of the above requirements. Not one of the courses was taught by a certified instructor in any of the one certifying boards?

No course taken had an State Certified or NRA instructor present... see #7...seems to be WIDE open here for just about anything to qualify.

What training did they specifically deny as not meeting the criteria? That is what I want to know...

There are others... like presents evidence of participation in a Organized shooting competition... I suppose an IDPA membership might qualify? Not sure... but it is an organized shooting event

Even if someone were to go to a "PETES PISTOL PLAZA" as long as they were certified by the state (not the NRA) as an instructor.. this would qualify. I assume that you need to get a certification from some board in order to teach... yes? As long as it is a licensed facility for teaching... it should qualify under the FLA guidelines... I suppose.

Again... which of the training courses this member attended din not meet these super stringent regulations?

The state of florida wants a nice neat hunters safety card or NRA basic pistol cert. They do not care to look up the background of my instructors despite my insistence that they are pretty much all either NRA, POST, FBI, State police, FAA, CJSTC or NLETC, certified instructors.

They did not deny any of my classes. I called and asked if it would be okay, they said they weren't sure, and i wasn't going to waste $117 and my time to find out by getting denied on a technicality.

[Murf_The_Surf]

Originally Posted by markheck1

The reason everyone is mentioning these other states permits is because Ohio's reciprocity is dependant upon a state having an equal or better training requirement for their home state's permits....PA has no training requirement, therefore won't be reciprocal with Ohio any time.

Actually, the Ohio statue mandates substantially similar requirements for the reciprocal state's permit; it doesn't single out training.

The Pennsylvania Sportsmen's Association (PSA) Legislative Committee is in early talks with Ohio officials to see if we can articulate a valid case that Ohio statutory requirements are actually met by PA without adding a training requirement to the PA LTCF application process.

[marinakorp]

Originally Posted by MarcS

The state of florida wants a nice neat hunters safety card or NRA basic pistol cert. They do not care to look up the background of my instructors despite my insistence that they are pretty much all either NRA, POST, FBI, State police, FAA, CJSTC or NLETC, certified instructors.

They did not deny any of my classes. I called and asked if it would be okay, they said they weren't sure, and i wasn't going to waste $117 and my time to find out by getting denied on a technicality.

Well that stinks.

SO they are not following their own rules for issuing a permit...great.

That is what I wanted to find out... thanks for the clarification.